V-22 crash

Walt, I've posted the report 2 days ago. I'll post again in a bit. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

All the luck

I agree Lurch, but it'll be a weird Squadron if you ask me. I wish her all the luck she can find, as she will need it. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Qualified

I met some people in the Corps I didn't think should be allowed to lead a pig to slop, ( including myself ) and you're right that medals aren't enough !, but She is a Marine and has lots of Marines in the unit She commands for her and their sake I'm Praying for her success! Politics be damned they ALL need All the help they can get ! SEMPER FI ! kc 🙂

Qualified

Lurch, Gentlemen, i just do not believe they could do half the missions we did in 'Nam. Thats right, she will need all the help and luck, and intelligence she can fine, but don't believe it'll be enough. Hope so, BUT....!Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Weird ???

It'll make the Twilight zone look like Ozzie and Harriet ! 😀

Female or Male as CO

John Ace Hunt
NOTAM Honcho

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Antlers, Ok. 74523
Posts: 1,246

5 air medals, CAR, and EGA
None of those qualify anyone to be CO of a Helicopter Squadron. Its just politics as usual. Glad I don't have to be in it. Which squadron will have the first homo Co, a woman at that?
__________________
ACE

Ace,

I have a nephew who is gay and I work in an environment where there are gays also working.

I don't necessary approve of their choice of sexuality, but as in Vietnam, when it came to leaving in the middle of the night to pick up a Med-e-vac or having some grunt risking his life to protect myself and crew if we were shot down in a hot zone, I could not care one iota what the hell their color was, what they thought about their sexual orientation or how they looked.

As long as they did their job and I did mine, that what counts!! There's too much crap going on in the world today to sweat the small stuff. It is a little disturbing that there are so many narrow minded people.

S/F Gary Alls
HMM-263 '66-'67

Twilight zone

I bet a lot of the Crewmen will be wishing they were in the twilight zone soon. How long will it be before there has to be a homo CO of a V-22 Squadron? Just real political correct,huh. Not with me or my Son, or any of my Family. Period. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Ooocchhhh

I dink ah yesst bit ma tongue auff !!!:D

Ooocchhhh

Hate that Lurch. I just remember what queers did to Brother Marines in Memphis going to school in '66, and I hope every one of them chocks on a salami. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

narrow minded people

Well. Glad I'm narrow minded. You believe in the Bible? Bet there were not very many homo's in Vietnam for that matter. If so not many came home. If one of my kids had ever became homo, I would have taken them out in the woods, and knocked their heads against a tree stump. Put them out of their missery right then and there. The Marines that were messed up by them in Memphis in '66 I bet never had sex again. We hunted them down, or tried to, but they figured us out, and stayed away from us. Still love them. You will now have all the chance in the world to love them. A Man that can not raise nothing but homos needs to be fixed, so he can not ruin the world anymore. Believe Drs have said its a reflection of the parents. Put that in your smoke and pipe it. I just hate that so many will be put out on disability because when they get knocked in the head, they will be drawing a big Service Connected check, and still popping slami's. They will over turn the DADT sooner than you will believe, just for that reason. How did you get your Service Connection?, well, I tried to swallow the whole thang......Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

More on the Air Force CV-22 Crash

There is more posted at V-22 OSPERY. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

John Ace Hunt;30721 wrote: None of those qualify anyone to be CO of a Helicopter Squadron. Its just politics as usual.

Ace,

I wasn't implying it qualified her. I'm just saying as a sister Marine I wish her the best. It may be politics but, she could actually be a fine Marine who earned it. I pray for all of our Marines, regardless of gender, including both my sons. Semper Fi, Jim

qualifications

Jim, I wish her well as you do. I know there are a Great number of Lt.Cols., and Full Birds that are as, or more qualified as she is. I'm sure she can fly one, but soon there will have to be a woman CO on ships, Submarines, Test Pilots, Wings, Joint Chiefs of Staff, Air Force one Pilots, most likely B-52 Pilots already, and other positions just because of being a woman. TIME IN GRADE is the Factor, not gender. If they have the time in grade over a man, thats Great. Don't believe thats the case. Its called hesitation, very big chance of it happening, then all are dead. I say to heck with it, as I don't care anymore. I don't have to fly with them. Strap a monkey in the seat, it'll learn. Seems to be one in the cic's chair. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

V-22

Ace,
Mark Twain once said, "There is nothing more ignorant as an educated man off his specialty." Now really, what do you really know about the V-22?
Give me a break.

V-22

Well, this ignorant person, knows its an over priced, over promoted, 30 years in the making, defensless, boon-doggle piece of aluminum, and composite. This last crash, if it had been a 46 with engine loss, the Pilot could have pulled up on the collective, and jumped the ditch, and he would not have even had to do a roll on landing in the 1st place. The Crew Chief could have told the Pilot to do an orbit, and landed elsewhere. For the price of 1- 22 there could be at least 40- 46's replace it. The 46 is maybe 2.5 million, and the 22 is well over 88-89 million PER unit. I may safely say there has been less men Killed in 46's since 2000, than the 22, by about 11 Men. I know just about as much as most people know about it. It CAN-NOT auto-rotate, Hover on the ramp, float as long as a 46, or even come close to doing a Button-Hook. It certainly can not get in and out of a zone in less than 30 seconds, the 46 can. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Reality Check!

This last crash, if it had been a 46 with engine loss, the Pilot could have pulled up on the collective, and jumped the ditch, and he would not have even had to do a roll on landing in the 1st place. The Crew Chief could have told the Pilot to do an orbit, and landed elsewhere.

Ace,
Clearly you never flew CH-46A models! If you lost and engine with a load of troops and fuel, and we did, you were going to land, post haste! there was no flying about finding a place for a nice smooth hover landing! It WAS going to be a roll on, even if you couldn't "roll" out!! To repeat my earlier post, the early '46 crews had the SAME dilema as the V-22 guys did a few years ago, The UH-34 guys talked about us exactly the way you are talking about V-22 folks! AND...they were full of crap, too! You flew the "D's" and know they were/are great birds!

Power

Joe, I remember that debate and all the auto-rotation practice on the 46A cause like you said - down is where you went. Being sent first to HMX-1 I heard from quite a few old salts to try and get assigned to the huey or the 53 for schooling and training BUT "needs of the service" prevailed.

I could have had my choice

I went 46s cause I was told I would get more flight time ! as far as the V-22 /CH -46 debate they are totally different air craft with both having stregths and weakness .I think the V-22 can not replace the 46 in toto nor can the 46 match range or flight specs as published for the V-22. I think composite squadrons are still the best answer with maybe four or six V-22 per MEU . it's all about capability and coordanation of assets. sf kc

Power

Dale Glad for you. I'm glad I was sent to an F-8 Fighter Squadron for 2 years before I went Choppers. Especially glad I went the 46. I do have a good understanding of Fixed Wing, and DO feel I have a good knowledge of the Rotors. I've been following the 22 since it was started, and will continue to feel the way I do because of that knowledge. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

"Break-in Period"...

Joe Reed;30785 wrote: Ace,
Clearly you never flew CH-46A models! If you lost and engine with a load of troops and fuel, and we did, you were going to land, post haste! there was no flying about finding a place for a nice smooth hover landing! It WAS going to be a roll on, even if you couldn't "roll" out!! To repeat my earlier post, the early '46 crews had the SAME dilema as the V-22 guys did a few years ago, The UH-34 guys talked about us exactly the way you are talking about V-22 folks! AND...they were full of crap, too! You flew the "D's" and know they were/are great birds!

Joe,you & I go back a ways. Coming out of NAS,ADJ & BASHEL school.,I was cut orders for LTA,Santa Ana.,HMM 164. We were the 1st unit on the West Coast to receive 46's. At the time,they had 6 birds.,2 on the flight line in up status.,4 in the hangar.,1 of those cannibalized to the point of being a skeleton.
I really,REALLY,wanted to get up there & bore holes in the sky. The sight of those 4 a/c sitting in the barn & the inter-meshing rotor blades,gave me pause for thought,though.
All the 'ghost stories' passed on by the 'salts' that had served with units that had experience with the old HRP-1(?) 'Flying Banana'.,or 'Widow-maker',as they called it.,only served to exacerbate the situation. It's a wonderment that they were able to convince ANY of us young bucks to become junior airmen. (The attraction of a few extra bucks on payday was enough to overcome our fear & apprehension.)
Those 1st "A" models were a logistical & maintenance NIGHTMARE !!! They drove the mechs,avionics,& the bubble-chasers crazy.,supply as well. Nothing much,in the way of 'hands on' experience with this 'new-kid-on-the-block'...,too little a/c history to permit supply to keep common failure items in stock.,of which,there were MANY. That was early '65.
The break-in period saw significant improvement by '66.,especially in logistics. However,the droop-snoot blades were added to the "A" models,followed by the dash 10 engines. No mods incorporated to the air frame.
Enter the 'break-apart' phase.,when we became known as the "Great Green Bird With The Falling Tail". Evolution developed the "D" model & failure at the '410 station'.,ceased to be less of an issue. This mod came at a great loss of life. People had to learn that you cannot put 10 lbs. of s**t in a 5 lb. bag.
At this juncture.,there is not enough money to get me into a V-22 for a simple FAM hop...,WOULDN'T get into one of the old A's either.,as I remember them..,but then,again,I'm gettin' old & shakey. LOL
As much as we resent the '46 being put out to pasture.,time moves on.,so does technology. GET OVER IT !!!
By,the by...,for all you neophytes,unfamiliar with "A" models in a combat theater..,there was no such thing as the practiced RAL or CAL
procedure.,as enjoyed.,stateside.
Autorotation.,in country.,meant that you were the 1st to arrive at the scene of the crash.,if ya had a full load on an "A" model.,roll-on-landing thru the bush...,right,Joe ??? LOL
Craze

The film

hey CRAZE they had a film in bashel school that was made to show the flexing of a helos airframe and blades ,any one see it ? I remember alotta guys didn't wanna play after they saw it,and didn't ! but for me it was the only sure way I could be aircrew !Craze you brought a smile to my face :)Bottom line is "THEY'RE" gonna do what "THEY'RE" gonna do !, and ain't nothing "WE" say on "HERE" gonna change a damned thing !And "WE" should know that by now ! 😀 sf kc

HMM 262 flew over 2200 hundred hours in Feb of 67 with A models and some of the crew chiefs where right out of a school. They where bad but not that bad. When the Marines got the 46 it was the same bird that NY Airways flew. They never took into consieration the hard landings and other abuses we put on them.After 262 did the mod program they where better. The Marines lost most of the A models in 1968 in the Hillfights. Soon everone had D's and 69 starting getting F models because the engines where reeady to made E models.
Now the V22 has had many more problems then the 46 did but the people flying them now swear by them. I wouldn't be afried to ride in one I think it would get be back home.I went to a 261 reunion at New River after 261 came back from Afgan flying V22's they had a lot of good things to say about them and the worse thing they said about them was the parts problem.
SF

'break in period'

Thats all well and good. I know for a fact every time our Squadron flew by Marble, Phu-bai, Quang-Tri, even down at Chu-Lai, we were ordered to do a roll on Auto-rotation, wether we wanted to or not. It would scare the crap out of the packs we had on, but didn't do them any good. Got to where I enjoyed doing them. Hope it will still be the end of '12 before my Squadron goes to the junk wagon. Maybe they will change the scheduled CO, from a Male to a Female, by then, a happy one at that. Doubt it though. I had an Alpha for each Bird I had. They were the modified Sigma Tail, as I was told that was the name of them, and they flew just fine for me. They would haul 20-21 packs without a problem at all, full load of Fuel too. I doubt as of now there are very many Marine Pilots that can do an auto-rotation, as I understand they were stopped as they didn't have enough replacements still in inventory to do them, due to lack of ability to do them without crashing, or causing hard landings, breaking the tails off again. I know there is not a Pilot what so ever that can do a button hook, on active Duty. I'd fly with any of my Past Pilots that cared to fly them today, any day of the week. Don't believe I'd want to fly with to many of the nuggets though. I intend to keep saying what I think of the 22, and will keep hoping they will be smart enough to keep at least a few 46 Squadrons going. That remains to be seen though. I bet if there are any more engine failures on the big bird, they will re-evaluate the transisition until the problems can be solved. This last April the Air Force had the crash due to the engine failures, and it may not be long before the Marine 22's start doing the same thing. Just have to see won't we?This machine says its 82 outside, but in reality, its only 63 here. The Calif. rain will be in Ok. by this Fri. some time, so be ready for it in Florida a few days later. Maybe even Christmas day. Have good ones, and Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

'The Film'

No Lurch, didn't get to see it even after I started Flying. It would have been nice to see it though. I noticed as the time wore on in Country, the ones that loved Flying kept on Flying, and the ones that didn't care to take the chances, didn't. That is just the way it was. One time after loosing one, I was able to get another the same day. It would usually take a few days though. The rain should be getting to you by now, and hope you don't get a land slide on your mountain from it. Stay warm, and Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Parts problem

Walt thats Very Good. I know even with the tail mod., when I and my Gunner changed the engine at H&MS at Marble on Aug.26th,'69, I had a dash 10 engine almost hoisted into the #2 engine compartment, and the shop Gunny came running out to the Bird, made me stop, put it back on the stand, and push it back to the shop by myself. I was mad as ever, and told him the D*** tail has been modified to take a 10 engine, but he still would not let me put it in. I was going to put another 10 in the #1 next, and have a D wether they liked it or not. It did have a D tail on it, and not an Alpha tail. Whatever they called the thing. Like I said I was told the tail mod was called a Sigma, but that doesn't mean it was. The only engine I was allowed to get was another dash 8. A few Squadron members started helping us put it in, but I sent them back to the club after awhile, which left me and my Gunner to finish it. Again, glad it did warm up for you, and have a feeling you'll be getting soaked in a few days. Maybe even snow by Christmas. Stay warm. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.