Great to see this awesome bird

I was part of the restoration crew that restored Mike Clausen's CH-46 dedicated in Charlotte, NC the Weekend of Oct, 20.

The Marine Corps sent one of the V-22 Osprey's to Charlotte to be part of the Static Display next to the CH-46, known as Blood, Sweat, & Tears.

The two Aircraft standing next to each other was a magnificent sight, and was very impressive for all who saw it. Particularly impressive was the landing and the takeoff of the Osprey. What a sight.

OORAH! Marine Corps! VMM-263 will be well received by the Marines and should be feared by the Enemy. I know the crew that I met in Charlotte, and the Marines who crew this Aircraft will do us proud. Carry 0n!

Dennis A. Craycraft

beddoe;20703 wrote: From: malcolmedwina@bellsouth.net
[mailto:malcolmedwina@bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: V-22 in Theatre

OOOOOOOOORRRRAAAAAAAAHHHHH! Thanks to Art Sifuentes for the picture. Wish I was there with them. Semper Fi, Y'all.

Check out the CH-46's to the right of the Osprey! Still crazy after all these years. Those things were built during the Viet Nam war and still pulling! Carry On!

new photo posted.

https://www.popasmoke.com/visions/image.php?source=11453

VMM-263 (MV-22B Osprey) Photos from aboard the USS Wasp LHD-1

If you haven't seen this link you should.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1914019/posts

Thanks to all of you..
The pictures are really very great...

A thought

It appears that the Ospreys take off from a large deck by flying forward.

What a wonderful idea.

I recall the H46 ship departure procedure under these conditions as follows:

1. Lift into a hover over the deck in ground effect. Check guages and insure adequate power.

2. Slide sideways over the water. Make certain that the helicopter also has enough power to hover out of ground effect.

3. Proceed on course.

It was never clear to me what to do if the check in step 2 failed.

Ray... You never slid sideways over the water untill you had sufficient out of ground effect power to stay above the deck. If you didn't you kicked out some of your load, With the ship steaming into the wind I don't ever recall having to do that. Now on a hot day in an LZ with 22 troops and full fuel load, well.... that's another story..... Your post brings back a lot of old memories...s/f

Step 2

In HMM-165 on the Valley Forge (2/68) we had a crew find out! As the HAC headed out past the bow of the ship he lost an engine. Full load of troops and full load of fuel! The Navy made him fly the entire "Delta" pattern to get back to the ship, when they approached below the flight deck until and last "burst" of power from the CH-46A got them aboard, albeit with some rotor damage to that and two other parked a/c since they were unable to "sideslip" aboard due to lack of Nr!! Puckered everyone's fanny, but all walked away. We changed some blades and rotor heads (3) and one engine

ON the Carb cruise before we deployed to Viet Nam . We had a pratice invasion while it was stll dark. The squids missed one chain on the left landing gear ,as the ac lifted off it hung for a second before the chain broke then all most went in sea side ways , scared the hell out of the crew and everone on the flight deck. That was as close as I ever saw of one going into the sea . Another time I saw the crew chief get left on the flightdeck as the pilot took off before he was backl aboard his ac, the long cord broke after allmost pulling his head off. SF

Losing the Crew Chief

Another time I saw the crew chief get left on the flightdeck as the pilot took off before he was backl aboard his ac, the long cord broke after allmost pulling his head off. SF
Walt is offline Report Post

Walt,
Darrell Tygart was leaning on the CC door when they lifted off of a Carrier during his second tour with HMM-165! He fell out on the flight deck from WAY Up there! Shattered his L/arm and wrist and had t be med-evaced for advanced surgery. You just can't trust those latches!

Lost the Crew Chief

Just ask John "Ace" Hunt about those latches. I was just reading his story last week that Wally Beddoe did.

Joe Reed;26343 wrote: Walt,
Darrell Tygart was leaning on the CC door when they lifted off of a Carrier during his second tour with HMM-165! He fell out on the flight deck from WAY Up there! Shattered his L/arm and wrist and had t be med-evaced for advanced surgery. You just can't trust those latches!

I'm guessing then, that you gents didn't use gunners belts back then that would have prevented him from falling out of the A/C?

Gunner's belts?

"Wild",

From your avatar, I can see that you were associated with 53s.

In my time flying as a gunner in 53s in '67 & '68, I can't recall
anyone wearing a gunner's belt.

The only connection with the helo was the ICS cords.

Of course, the pilot & CP were strapped in. :D:D:D:D

belts?

I'm guessing then, that you gents didn't use gunners belts back then that would have prevented him from falling out of the A/C?

That would be a negative....For a Crew Chief to be encumbered with a belt with all we did in a CH-46 it would have been quite an ordeal!! We did use them on the odd times we had a tail gunner!

BELTs

Joe Reed;26354 wrote: That would be a negative....For a Crew Chief to be encumbered with a belt with all we did in a CH-46 it would have been quite an ordeal!! We did use them on the odd times we had a tail gunner!

:rolleyes:Belts? Now what are they !!! I don't believe I even worn them to keep my trousers up. In the 46 Joe you're right as a Crew chief most would want to keep on the move. I did however hear some stories about those that stay still ,me I didn't even want to sit . Sitting was the way you could get shot in the REAR. Didn't want that !

I can't remember if I wore a belt, that was a long time ago!

Gunners Belt

I always remember wearing a gunners belt in the '34's. Many a time in my haste to get out of the A/C, I still had my belt on. I've seen the underside of many a '34.

Gunner's belt

Tim is right, we very rarely worn the gunner's belt. The only time that I used it was while I was working on the ramp. I pulled more than one team aboard through the ramp when we couldn't land. Other times, we were running up and down the cabin. I can understand being a crew chief on a CH-34, sitting by the door. One slip and it would be a loooong way down.

V-22, & Gunners Belts

Yes Gentlemen, the V-22 is a machine with Great potential. I have reseverations about it though. I believe there should have been designed into it a system that below10-13 thousand feet the windows could be removed, and 50 cals. be swung in place that when in a landing situation the roto-props would be in a 45 degree to a full Helicopter rotor landing set. The guns would be able to be used during landing from an altitude of several hundred feet, and while un-loading troops in Hot zones. When the roto-props were in a verticle posisition for forward flight, the guns would not be able to be fired. My Squadron still has close to 2 years of existance in the 46. I believe in that time period I feel the major problems will be found, and all those 46's in moth Balls will be quickly put back into operation while its decided wether 50 to 80 or so million bucks per Aircraft is worth it on the V-22. The 46 still would be 20-25 times less the price per unit to this day. Since we(USMC), are going back to the quick assault type warfare the 46 is going to be all thats needed. There are problems with the 22 that are not known yet, and I would say several maybe major problems, that we do not know about, are trying still to be corrected. The Belts are in most cases not needed for a 46 Crew Chief, because for a Crew Chief to be a good one, he must be on the move in the 46 at all times. In the ****-pit, back to the engines,(opening the engine access doors to look for any suden leaks), checking the rear transmission for leaks, and what the grinding is, or wether the carbon seal is leaking fluid, re-setting the generators, looking out of the AirCraft for any possible mid-air collisions all around the Bird, and of course when needed, being on the Crew Chiefs Gun. A Crew Chief that just sits in his seat is worthless, and not a Crew Chief. I shudder to think some Birds were lost in Vietnam just because of that simple thing. The Crew Chief did not know what was going on. I have seen several videos of 46's going into the water just before landing on ship. Did they(ECA's) sense a low fuel pressure and shut down to idle RPM? The T-58-8, &-10 has engine condition actuators(ECA's) on each engine, an electronic gass peddle. If the Crew Chief had the engine doors open, and one went to idle RPM, he could grab the lever, and advance it to full power in time to save the Bird, and everyone on board. Full power spitting and sputtering was better than idle RPM, and loosing the Bird and possibly the Crew, and the people on board. It was mid-July'69, and EP-16 was taking off from the Iwo-Jima. I had just started to go below deck, and the Bird lifted off the Deck, hovered for ground effect, and as it went out over the water, lost out of ground effect power, and it nose dived into the Sea. Everone was saved, but the left seat had a bad broken right foot I believe. It was never known what happened, it just lost out of ground effect power on take off. The Crew Chief was Cpl. Jones. A very good Crew Chief. He worked very hard to keep his Bird ready to Fly. Things happen just in seconds for most any Bird to get into a crash condition. If the Crew Chief is tied down, kiss it all good bye in most cases. Most of the 34 Men, and a bunch of 46 Men knew this. You could not be tied down, and have the time to fire at gooks, or run to stop a bad leak, or if the co Pilot was wasted, and the HAC was wounded, you would have to help the Pilot Fly the Bird, or all would be dead in a very short time. I wouldn't want to be flying as Gunner and my Crew Chief was tied down. Think I'd go to mess duty. All have good ones, Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

When I went to the 261 reunion the CO briefed us on what they did in Afgan with the Osprey. He said they perfomed very good. They mounted a 7.62 machine gun on the ramp. Early in the cruise they ran about 80% up but as time went by it was down to 40 to 50 %. The day of the reunion their was only one that was misson ready and 3 that was flyable. Most of all of it was for parts. Toward the end of the cruise they took some hits in the skin no one was wounded during the tour.
When I flew CC in a 46 I never wore a belt but I never leaned out the front hatch either I all ways stuck my head our the window where the gun was. Its a wonder that more people didn't fall out of 34's . SF

V-22 in Theater

Walt, I'm glad you posted about this. It just shows what I was saying about it when I posted on it earlier. They built the thing knowing there would be parts wearing out left and right. There was sand in 'Nam as well, but the 46 and others still flew didn't they? They are some bad design flaws that we are not being told about, I do believe. At 1st they had good percentages of up Birds, but as a short time went by, they started being grounded for lack of parts. It is at least a 50-60 plus million per Bird we are looking at. If they would take half the modifications off the 46, and keep them going, at least the troops could be inserted in the Combat zone, and not have to walk a long way the Fighting. To many IED's for that, plus the snipers. They plan to sell the 46's to other countrys when they all are replaced. Better believe that.!!!! Once they are gone, never to be back again. I doubt Boeing would build anymore 46's anyway. Not for 25 million a piece even. They run about 2 million still apiece, as they did when they were 1st made. In a lot of cases, older, IS better. I say they will start having major failures, like the 46 did after a bit. They blame it on the sand wearing the parts out, but it takes 2-3 times longer to work on the 22, than the 46 any day. To replace one little part, half the thing has to be dismantled. Thats why a number of Crew Chiefs were given very BIG bonuses to go over to the 22. I believe the 46 now has enlarged fuel tanks, for 5000 pounds of fuel, where in 'Nam we had only 2500 pounds. They still have a crew of 4, and can only haul 9-10 packs now because of it. In my souped up Alfa's, I've haulled 20 & 21 Packs before. That is a FACT. The little 7.62 gun on the ramp of the 22 does a whole bunch of good , doesn't it? They shoot at you from the front coming in for a drop off, then from the sides. But the little gun, is on the BACK ramp. It took a High Dollar engeneer to come up with that. Bet he never was in the Military, or Flew on a Combat mission. He was most likely a hippie protesting us in 'Nam for being there, now he is designing a machine that he knows is sub standard, for us to go die in. They haven't started falling out of the air yet, but they will, Every 50 to 70 million dollar one they have made. It angers me for them to get rid of one of the few Most succesful Birds in Marine Air History. Oh, they just to old. I would believe each engineer that designed the 22 is a multi- millionaire. The records should be checked some way. We will never know though. Have good ones all. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

V-22

On my last post here I failed to ask who woud like to be on the re-tests of flying on one engine, or without either left or right nacel? I feel the engineers should be in the 1st troop seats. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

That thing won't fly with one nacelle any more than the 46 would fly missing the fore or aft rotor or losing one blade or part of one blade. Single engine operation is a different thing, I don't know the spec on OEO ops on the VM-22. I know it won't auto-rotate which isn't a good thing, run on landings I don't think would work either. The prop rotors would strike the ground and tear the machine apart unless there is a break away part of the prop rotor which I doubt. There are a lot of unknowns about that machine, time will tell!

one nacel, with engine not running

Tim, I'll re- phrase it, I'd like to see the test with both nacels, and one of the engines shut down completely. Its susposed to fly with the cross shaft system from one engine to the other, but I certainly DOUBT it will. May not even get off the ground. That is with one in the Squadrons in afghan right now, not one made to do it off the line. I say one engine will not do it. Think they know beter than to believe it would. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.