Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Merlin, Doug Cunningham was in Marina Del Rey, CA as of last year: 310-333-0737. I live right next to you in St. Peters, MO 636-441-5623. I was a pilot with HML-167 Dec. '69 to Dec. '70. I flew the sniffer mission many times. We lost an APD Operator in 1970 Cpl. David C. Bugman 28 April 1970 when the aircraft crashed. Both pilots were pulled out alive, but David died in the crash.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Allyn,

It's a small world after all.

I think I was done flying the Sniffer missions by late '68 because I transferred to an operational CH-46 squadron in early 69 after my first year in-country. I think I finally left VN in late November '69.

Did not know/remember Cpl Bugman who was KIA. But he probably came to H&MS 16 long after I left.

I know that Sgt Cunningham was flying the missions at about the same time as me since he reflected on the death of Cpl Wagner in Sep 68 .

Are you a part of the VFW or Marine Corps League in the area?

Regards

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I belong to Marine Corps League Det. 725 we meet 1st Wed. of each month at the American Leigon Post in "Old Town St. Peters" at 7:00 PM. I live at 26 Country Creek Dr.
St. Peters, MO. Give me a call: 636-441-5623

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I love it when a plan comes together!

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I was involved in the rescue mission for Comprise 45 as the on scene FAC when Hostage DUKE had to RTB. I have an audio tape (30 min) of part of the rescue - didn't have time to remove and reinsert the tape when it ran out. Also have a copy of the KING airborne command post logs covering the rescue.

Others on tape were Comprise 4, 10 and 17; Scardace 21 and 53; Chatterbox 26; King 4 (USAF C-130 command post); Spad 1-1 and 1-2 (USAF A-1's out of Da Nang); Jolly Green 33.

Hostage IGOR

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I was with VMO-2 68-70 and we used to fly cover for the sniffer chopper, usually early morning hardly any wind and they flew right at treetop level. Don't remember taking fire. only flew 3 or 4 of those missions.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Believe we had a few, but I was always on something else. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

There was always two gunships flying chase a couple miles back from the "sniffer" chopper which was a slick because of the APD equipment.

The mission of the gunships was to mark the maps when the sniffer operator radioed "mark 1" (urea/ammonia), or "mark 2" (smoke). And of course when the sniffer slick got into the bad stuff, the gunships would come in with guns and rockets blazing while calling in the zoomies from DaNang which were supposed to be setting on the runway hot and ready to go (at least that's what I was told).

Big problem with the sniffer missions during my timeframe was that the equipment did not work but 50% of the time. It was relatively new and very unreliable technology back then. So even though we calibrated the equipment over the villages before each mission, many times you didn't know you were on top of the enemy until all hell broke loose. This happened too many times and we lost two crews to sniffer missions when I was in-country.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Phillip Moss;31682 wrote: I was with VMO-2 68-70 and we used to fly cover for the sniffer chopper, usually early morning hardly any wind and they flew right at treetop level. Don't remember taking fire. only flew 3 or 4 of those missions.

I was with HML 167 in "68, flew 2 sniffer missions and all we picked up was elephant and monkey dung. Views were nice, but was glad to get back in my gunner position!!

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

The "sniffer" didn't pick up dung, but did pick up urea/ammonia (i.e., urine) in large concentrations from any mammal (monkeys included). That's why, unless the sniffer slick drew enemy fire, you didn't know whether you were calling air strikes in on a population of monkeys, or VC/NVA.

Do you remember the sniffer operators on the missions you flew with HML-167?

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I remember flying what we called "Sniffer Chase". There were two UH-1E's up front, two Cobra's behind them, a 46 followed the Cobra's and a 53 flying behind the 46. This would have been in the fall of 1970.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

mclayton;31691 wrote: The "sniffer" didn't pick up dung, but did pick up urea/ammonia (i.e., urine) in large concentrations from any mammal (monkeys included). That's why, unless the sniffer slick drew enemy fire, you didn't know whether you were calling air strikes in on a population of monkeys, or VC/NVA.

Do you remember the sniffer operators on the missions you flew with HML-167?

Pilot was Cpt John Henry Key. Crew Chief Jimmy Norsworthy (VMO 2), whom was KIA

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

popasmoke;31692 wrote: I remember flying what we called "Sniffer Chase". There were two UH-1E's up front, two Cobra's behind them, a 46 followed the Cobra's and a 53 flying behind the 46. This would have been in the fall of 1970.

WOW!

The mission configuration was drastically changed from '68 to '70.

As I stated in a previous reply, the "sniffer" chopper was a lone Huey slick on the treetops, with two Huey gunships a few miles back marking maps when we detected enemy (or monkeys). When we took fire on the treetops, the gunships came in with guns and rockets and called in air strikes from the zoomies at DaNang.

Sounds like your mission configuration was structured to pull out downed crews. That ever happen?

I actually finished my Vietnam extension tour with HMM-263 in the summer and fall of '69. But to my recollection, never flew a mission with them.

Regards,

Merlin Clayton
H&MS-16, HMM-165, HMM-263

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I didn't see what good they were. Glad we weren't involved very much. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

John Ace Hunt;31700 wrote: I didn't see what good they were. Glad we weren't involved very much. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

In retrospect, you're probably right.

I know that the squadron crews didn't like the assignment, especially the seasoned pilots. They were quite aware of the unreliability of the equipment, and the vulnerability of sniffer slicks flying on the treetops at very slow speeds.

Of course, every conflict has questionable mission assignments.

Regards,

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I do agree Merlin. The bad boys knew what we were doing, and didn't want to give their positions away. Seems a few did though. Then they stopped. On one mission we had to take the Army on an AO, our heavy flew us right over a whole NVA Division, and he acted like we didn't have anything on the ground under the jungle canopy. It was way northwest of the north west corner of S. Vietnam. Above Vandergriff. We stayed so long on it we flamed out coming into the fuel pits. Glad I didn't Fly with him to many times after that. Tried to tell him and them, the whole place was loaded, but not a one listened to me. God was with us that day, I KNOW. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

I believe I was one of the first pilots to fly the sniffer missions, also the "firefly" missions. This was around the summer of 68. When the OV-10's started coming into country (around June 68) they started transfering huey pilots from VMO-2 to a new huey squadron -HML-167. I believe Maj Dunn was the first CO. As was stated in previous posts, at the time I flew it, it could not really tell the difference between human and animal urine. If we ever got any good intel about it I never found out. Flew right at treetop level and sometimes stumbled across NVA, called in the two gunship cover birds and got some KIA that way. Duke Lind

mclayton;31595 wrote: I'm looking for anyone who flew APD "Sniffer" missions out of Marble Mountain in Vietnam.

I flew these missions during the late '68, early '69 timeframe as "Sniffer" operator from H&MS 16. I think the operational squadrons were VMO-2, and/or HML-167 (I'm trying to clarify my memory). During this timeframe, I remember losing one of our guys in to enemy fire (in addition to the Huey crew). He was Cecil "Barrel" Wagner. Another one of guys was shot in the foot (Sam ? from Memphis area). But this is the extent of my memory.

I read posts from Sgt Doug Cunningham who flew these missions from a few years back, but nothing recently. If you're still out there please let me know.

Regards,

Merlin Clayton

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

dukelind;32351 wrote: I believe I was one of the first pilots to fly the sniffer missions, also the "firefly" missions. This was around the summer of 68. When the OV-10's started coming into country (around June 68) they started transfering huey pilots from VMO-2 to a new huey squadron -HML-167. I believe Maj Dunn was the first CO. As was stated in previous posts, at the time I flew it, it could not really tell the difference between human and animal urine. If we ever got any good intel about it I never found out. Flew right at treetop level and sometimes stumbled across NVA, called in the two gunship cover birds and got some KIA that way. Duke Lind

Duke:
You are correct: Maj G.H. Dunn was HML 167 C.O. I was a gunner and flew a couple sniffers, one with Cpt John Henry Key, . Both were north/northwest of danang:Elephant Valley and near Hai Van Pass. Not very productive
Dennis hml 167
1968

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

My Bird most always flew low as often as we could, when Flying alone. Didn't have any cover. Kind of wish we had. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

dweathers;32355 wrote: Duke:
You are correct: Maj G.H. Dunn was HML 167 C.O. I was a gunner and flew a couple sniffers, one with Cpt John Henry Key, . Both were north/northwest of danang:Elephant Valley and near Hai Van Pass. Not very productive
Dennis hml 167
1968

Dennis,

After reviewing my military records several weeks ago, I found out that I was certified on the APD "Sniffer" equipment in Dec '68. I flew my first "Sniffer" mission on Dec 1, 1968 with HML-167. My last mission was the end of March '69 with VMO-2 because I transferred to HMM-165 on April 1st, '69.

In subsequent reviews of After Action Reports on the Texas Tech website I found comprehensive reports for VMO-2, but the reports for HML-167 were sketchy with many time periods missing.

Are you aware of any other locations for AARs for 167 during the '68-'69 timeframe?

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

HML 367 had a Sniffer as well in 1968. Here is a photo. Note the high tech method of attaching the probe to the skid. (Tape)

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Tape!

That's only because velcro wasn't invented yet.

Where was 367 flying out of back then?

Who is in the picture?

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

mclayton;32362 wrote: Dennis,

After reviewing my military records several weeks ago, I found out that I was certified on the APD "Sniffer" equipment in Dec '68. I flew my first "Sniffer" mission on Dec 1, 1968 with HML-167. My last mission was the end of March '69 with VMO-2 because I transferred to HMM-165 on April 1st, '69.

In subsequent reviews of After Action Reports on the Texas Tech website I found comprehensive reports for VMO-2, but the reports for HML-167 were sketchy with many time periods missing.

Are you aware of any other locations for AARs for 167 during the '68-'69 timeframe?

MClayton: AAR are sketchy for HML 167 during this time frame. I joined HML 167 mid May 68, but orders also show TDY to VMO 2. Was Only Maj Dunn, Cpl Nobles in Office on arrival. My self and Cpl Bishop were 1st Ordnance personnel--believe HML 167 records were included in VMO 2 AAR due to lack of personnel and majority pilots were VMO 2.

Re: "Sniffer" Missions in Vietnam

Phu Bai and yours truly, Harry Lynch.