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Marine needs help

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Bill Vance
(@bill-vance)
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My parents raised four sons. All four of us were Marines. One of my brothers was KIA in July of 68. Please see the incident report below.

Incident Date 680703 HMM-164 CH-46A 150937 + Hostile Fire, Crash

We, my family, was told, by the Marine Corps, that my brother, Cpl Sherman Dale Vance was killed when the helicopter that he and the rest of his Recon team was riding in took fire upon an insert, crashed, killing all aboard.
Just recently I discovered your site (the helicopter association) and learned the true facts of the incident. I was always bothered by the idea that my brother did not have a fighting chance, that the entire Recon team was killed without putting up a fight. Just prior to this mission, this same team had twice in less than 30 days fought their way out of two very hot situations. Both times they were badly outnumbered but they kept their cool and put up a fight until one of you brave pilots came to the rescue. I did take some comfort in that I was told that death would have came quickly and that in a crash/explosion/fire that the suffering would have been short.
Now I learn that we were not given the truth. I don’t know how my brother died. I need your help.
I am looking for a Rick Wilson, HMM-164, Squadron S-4. Rick posted a narrative concerning the death of the pilot, Capt. Jim Littler. I believe Rick might have information or answers that could help.
Specifically:
1.Why is there a conflict in the MABS-16 report that says “all four crewmembers were killed in the crash” and the narrative that says “the crew got out but were executed by the NVA”
2.How soon after the incident would a rescue/recovery mission been launched?
3.Why was there not support air cover standing by for help?
4.How can I learn of the details of the recovery?
5.Was the bodies of the Recon team actually “under” the crashed Ch-46 or just nearby?
6.Is it realistic to believe the one bird could actually “land on top” of the entire eight man team?
7.The team or at least my brother died of burns. Would the morgue bothered to look for gun shot wounds when a badly burned body was brought in? The reason this is important is to determine if Dale was killed before he burned. If the team was strewn around the crash site instead of under the bird then logic would suggest that the team was putting up a fight. The crash would have caused a fire to the grass and the team would have been forced to choose between trying to escape the flame and fighting the NVA. Obviously they were out numbered and one can assume that with out air support that they fell to enemy gun fire and then were consumed by the flames.
The death certificate does not mention wounds other than the burns. No other wounds would lead one to believe that the CH-46 actually crashed on top of the team and sealed their fate.
8.Is it likely that the crew could have escaped the burning helicopter?
9.When a CH-46 goes down under these circumstances do they tend to crash and burn or crash and explode?
10.Would there be any records of radio comm. During the insert and rescue attempt?
11.Would there be any records of the recovery such as position/location of the casualties.

Thank you for any information that comes my way. I was not in country during Nam. I was with MAG-38 MWCS-38 3rd MAW at MCAS El Toro 1973-1976

 
Posted : 2004-08-16 22:14
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