The helicopter unit that did the A Shau operation was HMM-163. I can't
identify the helicopter that was shot down by Bureau Nulmber, but the squadron C.O., LtCol Chuck House [LtCol Charles A House, USMC, Navy Cross, 9-10 March 1966] was shot down on that day. Don Burger [2ndLt Donald J. Berger, USMC, Navy Cross, 11-12 March 1966] was shot down on the next day during rescue operations. [Don Berger was KIA at later date in C-130]

That's a great help. I understand that there were several Marine helicopter units flying in I Corps at the time and this narrows things down. There was only one USMC CH-34 lost on 9Mar so this must be the same one. There were two reported for 10Mar but I do not know if one or more came from HMM163.

Do we have any members from HMM-163 on the forum from that era?

Jim Henthorn, 21st SOS, Nov67 - May69

That's a great help. I understand that there were several Marine helicopter units flying in I Corps at the time and this narrows things down. There was only one USMC CH-34 lost on 9Mar so this must be the same one. There were two reported for 10Mar but I do not know if one or more came from HMM163.

Do we have any members from HMM-163 on the forum from that era?

Jim Henthorn, 21st SOS, Nov67 - May69

Ashau SF Camp rescue

Jim, I was on the Ashau camp rescue mission and remember it well. I've posted my story regarding it in "Poems & Stories" on this web site. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have.

https://www.popasmoke.com/notam2/showthread.php?t=4634&highlight=ashau

Norm,
By "On the rescue mission" do you mean the first attempt on 9Mar or the action on 10Mar? Most my confusion deals with the attempt to get into A Shau by Lt. Col. House on 9Mar.

Jim Henthorn, 21st SOS

Ashau Rescue Mission

I don't believe any HMM 163 H-34 went into Ashau on 9 Mar 66. LtCol House led 8 H-34s in at about 1700 on 10 Mar 66. That is when he lost his tail rotor and abandoned his bird to E&E with the camp survivors.

This is confirmed in Vic Underwood's first-hand account of the battle. (reproduced in my story on popasmoke.

Okay, that clears up that part.

There was a CH-34 (Bureau No 149297) that was shot down the day before Col House was shot down. That's who I'm trying to identify.

Thanks for clearing up the issue with Col House.

Jim Henthorn, 21st SOS

There was a CH-34 (Bureau No 149297)

That BuNo doesn't match any UH-34s. The closest UH-34D BuNos are 149318-149402.

Question? Re: Bu No 149297

Jim,

Where did you come up with that BuNo?

If a search is done it is for a fixed wing Jet which was designated

"BuNo 149297 of RVAH-6, the "Fleurs," aboard U.S.S. Ranger in early 1968. This is the aircraft that photographed the location of the "Hanoi Hilton" and opened the door for the later bombing of Hanoi. The unit also deployed in response to the Peublo crisis. This aircraft wears standard camouflage with the blue fluer-de-lis-bedecked blue tail stripes worn by the squadron."

VMO2 was involved

I arrived in country and was assigned to VMO2 on 7 March 66. I know VMO2 had several gunships involved in the both days. Several crewmen received Bronze stars, don't recall how many. Check with Alan Barbour, he is the Popasmoke historian and I'm almost positive he could provide you with additional info.

BuNos

Where's SID when you need him !

If there's anyone on the planet that can tie that BuNo to a 34, it's him.

I'll try and raise him up and see if we can get him to weigh in.

S/F

Tom

There was only one USMC CH-34 lost on 9Mar so this must be the same one.

The UH-34D shot down on 9 Mar was from HMM-263. It was on a med-evac and was hit in the oil line and forced down. the 1st MAW Command Chronology says "The downed aircraft was subsequently destroyed during the ensuing battle."

According to 1st MAW Command Chronology (Mar 66 Appendix 25) YP-1, YP-8 were downed 10 Mar; YP-21 went down 11 Mar.

BartClu;20345 wrote: I arrived in country and was assigned to VMO2 on 7 March 66. I know VMO2 had several gunships involved in the both days. Several crewmen received Bronze stars, don't recall how many. Check with Alan Barbour, he is the Popasmoke historian and I'm almost positive he could provide you with additional info.

I arrived at Marble in April 66, when I became a Crew Chief a few weeks later I was assigned a plane of sorts. It was a fuselage w/new skids. no engine, transmission/rotor head, tailboom, avionics etc. We got it pieced together and it was still flying in Nov 67 when I left. Still had 'bad' radios.

What I was told by the orginal CC was that this was the plane that came out of Ashau with 20+ people on board, he also told me he shot several off the skids to get airborne. He was the SSgt that transfered to Air America later. I can remember his name or the Bu # of the plane-I may be able to find that.

Mike Miller VMO-2 4/66-11/67

Hmm-263?

The UH-34D shot down on 9 Mar was from HMM-263

Tom,
If the YP call signs are accurate the squadron would have been HMM-163.....

Jim Rider

The pilot of that VMO-2 bird was Jim Rider if I remember right. Last I heard he lived down near New River, NC.

"...What I was told by the orginal CC was that this was the plane that came out of Ashau with 20+ people on board, he also told me he shot several off the skids to get airborne. He was the SSgt that transfered to Air America later. I can remember his name or the Bu # of the plane-I may be able to find that.

Mike Miller VMO-2 4/66-11/67"

Mike is Correct

ben.brenneman;20366 wrote: The pilot of that VMO-2 bird was Jim Rider if I remember right. Last I heard he lived down near New River, NC.

"...What I was told by the orginal CC was that this was the plane that came out of Ashau with 20+ people on board, he also told me he shot several off the skids to get airborne. He was the SSgt that transfered to Air America later. I can remember his name or the Bu # of the plane-I may be able to find that.

Mike Miller VMO-2 4/66-11/67"

If memory serves, Gus Plum was the other pilot, all received the Bronze Star. The missison (VMO2's) was to get the army special forces unit out, the people shot off of the skids were ARVN's. Our birds made it back to MMAF about an hour before dark.

vmo-2 crewchief, Bobby Abshire

So was Bobby Abshire the crewchief on that mission? He got a Navy Cross for something - I thought it was with Rider.

Bobbie

No, Bobbie [Cpl Bobby W Abshire, USMC, Navy Cross, 21 May 1966] and Capt. Plum, the left seater (who's name I can't remember) and the corpsman (again I don't remember the name) [Petty Officer James A Mayton, USN, Navy Cross, 21 May 1966] received the Cross for a medevac late summer of 66. Platoon was pinned down south of MMAF and they made 8 or 10 trip's in using 2 birds (first one was shot up a little). That was an all day fight. But I beleive Capt. Gus Plum was also on the gunship was on the 3-9/3-10 rescue-evac mission

If memory serves, Gus Plum was the other pilot, all received the Bronze Star. The missison (VMO2's) was to get the army special forces unit out, the people shot off of the skids were ARVN's. Our birds made it back to MMAF about an hour before dark.

According to the MAG-16 Command Chronology (Mar 1966, pg 9) it was Maj Clifford Reese:

"... On a later flight that same afternoon, two more UH-1E's again escorted Superchief aircraft into the Ashau valley, in marginal weather. The flight leader, Maj Clifford REESE, was engaged constantly with heavy automatic weapons fire. The second aircraft, flown by Capt J.W. RIDER, was also heavily engaged with the enemy, and after receiving permission from his flight leader, went down into the landing zone to try and rescue the crew of an H-34 that had been shot down. Upon landing, ARVN troops mobbed the aircraft to try and climb aboard. Capt RIDER crashed twice from low altitudes due to his overloaded status, but finally managed to get the aircraft into the air. Both aircraft expended every round of ammunition and rockets that they had on board."

HMM-263 lost 149397 on 9 Mar. HMM-163 lost 149370 on 10 Mar.
Other aircraft reported hit (Echo damage) were:
145792 HMM-263
148072 HMM-163
145793 HMM-163
149367 HMM-163
149347 HMM-163

VMO-2 had 151297, 151883, 151884 hit (all Echo damage)

Final recovery of Special Forces Bodies at Ashau

In May 1966, a flight of five huey slicks and supporting guns from VMO-2 was sent to the Ashau airstrip to recover the five Special Forces bodies that had been left during the March 10th action. Each a/c crew and recovery personnel was sent to recover a specific body. The EOD personnel with us expected the 5 bodies to be booby-trapped. I flew as copilot for Capt Gus Plum.

We landed at the airstrip expecting a possible ambush from the hills surrounding the airstrip while Marine recovery personnel were on the deck. We took no fire, but the pucker factor remained elevated. We were on the deck for approximately two hours.

The bodies had been untouched; in the exact position where each Special Forces man originally fell (based on aerial photography from the original site). They were all recovered successfully and we returned to base. The planning for this operation was precise; went completely as planned.

This is based on my recollection from 40 years ago.