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Thought I would share this item that was e-mailed to me by a former Phrog driver.
S/F Gary Alls
HMM-263 '66-'67
Marine Corps: So long, ‘Battle Phrogs’
Service phasing out CH-46 copters, some of which were flown in Vietnam
BY GRETEL C. KOVACH, UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
MONDAY, MAY 24, 2010 AT 12:04 A.M.
HOWARD LIPIN / UNION-TRIBUNE
A member of the Miramar Marine Corps Air Station squadron that flies the retiring CH-46 helicopters secures one of the “Battle Phrogs” aboard the Peleliu amphibious assault ship at Naval Base San Diego as the squadron prepares to deploy.
This tour of duty will be the last for some helicopters aboard the amphibious assault ship Peleliu, which steamed out of San Diego Bay on Saturday for a seven-month deployment.
The soon-to-be-retired “Battle Phrogs,” the beloved snub-nosed CH-46E helicopters with tandem rotors, have certainly earned it.
For four decades, the Marine Corps has relied on them to transport troops. Numbers painted on the exhaust-blackened bodies of the whirlybirds that were flown onto the Peleliu last week confirm their pedigree — four were used for combat duty in Vietnam.
The Sea Knights, as the Boeing-made helicopters are also known, are now older than the pilots who fly them, said Lt. Col. Todd J. Oneto, commanding officer of Squadron HMM-165. Thanks to “hours and hours and hours” of maintenance, they have been kept alive since the last one was made in 1971, Oneto said.
“I will be very sad to see the phrog go. I don’t think anybody anywhere will get the bang for the buck they had out of this platform,” said Oneto, who is doing his third stint with the squadron.
His fleet of CH-46s from Miramar Marine Corps Air Station left with the flagship Peleliu in the wake of two other amphibious assault ships, the Dubuque and Pearl Harbor, commanded by Navy Capt. Dale Fuller.
The helicopters had been towed into place and secured to the deck, their rotors folded inward and tied down. Now they are heading to the western Pacific and Persian Gulf with a reinforced Air Combat Element of Harrier jets and other helicopters. The ships also are carrying more than 3,000 sailors and Marines from the Navy’s Amphibious Squadron 3 and the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit from Camp Pendleton.
When the deployment ends, some of the Sea Knights will fly to the boneyard. The rest will spend a few twilight years with other squadrons until the Marine Corps completes its transition to the long-awaited and controversial V-22 Osprey, a “tilt-rotor” aircraft that takes off like a helicopter and flies like a plane.
The CH-46 has been the backbone of Marine aviation since Gerry Berry, now a retired colonel, used one to fly the U.S. ambassador out of Saigon in 1975. Last month, Berry recounted the episode when that restored helicopter — Lady Ace 09 — was put on display at the Flying Leatherneck Aviation Museum at Miramar Marine Corps Air Station.
He, too, belonged to Squadron HMM-165. Once that unit completes the Peleliu mission, its colors will be folded and a newly christened group of White Knights, Squadron VMM-165, will train to fly the Osprey.
Despite the fond memories, Oneto and other longtime CH-46 pilots are embracing the Ospreys.
Col. Roy A. Osborn, commander of the Marines deploying with the Peleliu, is a CH-46 pilot who helped develop the Osprey program from 1999 to 2002 at Marine Corps headquarters in Quantico, Va.
“It is a quantum leap forward in capability,” Osborn said of the Osprey. “It far outreaches the range, speed and payload of the ’46.”
Osborn said the Osprey was designed to take a beating in combat, and its fuel capacity and cruising speed of about 288 mph — nearly twice as fast as the CH-46 — shrink the battlefield: If the bad guys are shooting, the Osprey can fly high above or far around them, and it can transport more wounded service members to hospitals than pokier predecessors.
“I hate to see the phrog go because she’s a great aircraft. Forty-plus years old and still singing. I have flown in five conflicts in that aircraft,” Osborn said. “But it is time to park it on a stick in a museum and let the V-22 take the lead.”
Critics have called the Osprey program a “widow-maker” and boondoggle. It was nearly terminated more than once, until the military approved full production in 2005.
The Government Accountability Office, the watchdog arm of Congress, reported a year ago that V-22s used in the Iraq war flew faster and farther than the helicopters they replaced. It also cited problems with de-icing equipment that could limit operations in harsh environments like Afghanistan; lack of an integrated weapons system; problems with maintenance and parts supply; decreased maneuverability on Navy ships; and cost overruns that boosted the price per Osprey to $93.4 million.
The GAO recommended that the defense secretary require an analysis of alternatives to the Osprey, but the Pentagon disagreed. Since then, the Marine Corps and Air Force, which uses the V-22 for special-forces missions, have deployed the Osprey in Afghanistan. Four people died there in April in an Air Force Osprey crash, the cause of which is under investigation.
The Osprey’s four crashes during its development claimed 30 more lives. That record is comparatively safe, Osborn said.
“We crashed over 100 ’46s in the first five years,” he said.
The Navy retired its CH-46s in 2004, switching to MH-60S Knighthawks for the aerial waltz of cargo transit at sea.
Now the joke among Marines is that something is wrong if the CH-46 isn’t leaking hydraulic fuel. The dirt holds it together, they say.
The Corps has switched all of its regular East Coast squadrons of CH-46s to Ospreys. Miramar’s first Osprey squadron, VMM-161, relinquished its helicopters last year and is training to become fully operational on the tilt-rotors.
By the time HMM-165 returns from the Peleliu deployment, it will be the fourth squadron at Miramar in the Osprey pipeline. Pilots spend eight to 10 weeks in classroom and simulator training before completing Osprey instruction in North Carolina. The transition can take six months to two years.
The 3rd Marine Aircraft Wing, the umbrella aviation unit for the Marine Corps in Southern California, has four Ospreys. It expects to get at least one more each month until Camp Pendleton and Miramar are fully equipped, with as many as 10 Osprey squadrons between them.
For the CH-46 helicopter, this is the end of the line.
“There will be a lot of guys with tears in their eyes, and I will be one of them, when the final phrog flies to the boneyard,” Oneto said, chuckling. “Everybody loves what they fly.”
Posted : 2010-05-27 18:00
The last Phrogs
That was a sad but proud article. I have friends on that boat ride now. I am proud to be still working on the H-46.
I am station at VMR-1 (Search and Rescue) in Cherry Point. This was the home of the last 2 H-46D's to fly in military service in 2007 and will be the last home for the 3 H-46E's to fly in military service in 2015. They are to be replace with the new 4 bladed Huey.
I have been in the Marine Corps for 18 1/2 years now spending all my time on the Phrog. I love telling the stories that have been passed down to me and telling the stories that have happened during my time on the Phrog. The young Marines eyes get big with excitement when you tell them the history of the aircraft and that they to will be a part of it.
I love to bust on the other TMS aircraft while on deployment with them. They get a little hurt when I tell them there aircraft are young and don't have the history like the Phrog. The 53 kids like to pipe up and say they have been around since the Vietnam and I have to put them in there place. I tell them that this is true the 53A and 53D were used in Vieatnam but the 53E's they are flying now rolled of the Assembly line in the late 80's early 90's and the A's and D's were retired while the last Phrogs rolled off the line in the early 70's.
I live on MCAS New River and the air has gone silent from the sound of the beating blades of all the Phrogs. I can always tell when Pedro is flying by because its the only Phrog in the local area!
VMR-1 will be the last to fly the Phrog in 2015. We flew the last 2 HH-46D's in military service and will fly the last 3 HH-46E's in military service. This is after the west coast, oki and the reserve units receives there V-22 along with the last 53D's in Kay Bay.
I am proud that I have spent my life working and maintaining the Phrog and it history and I will retire right along side it!
Semper Fi
SSgt Croley
Posted : 2010-05-29 15:46
I hate to see the old girl go but like every thing else time as caught up with her. I either worked on them or supervised when they first entered the Marine Corps. She had her problems in 66 and 67 ,and killed some good Marines . but after 262 took all in country birds to Okinawa for the mod program she was like a different bird ,45 years old and still doing her job . SF to the H46 as she goes to the histroy books from active duty. As Marines we will all ways remember her. SF
Posted : 2010-05-29 16:07
Phrogs
Walt knew 'em all! Form the first lowly "A" model to the last "E" models, she IS a tough old bird!!
Posted : 2010-05-30 13:37
I'm flying one of the last Phrogs to Cherry Point with HMM-166. It's going to be my last flight in the mighty Phrog before transitioning to the Osprey.
I will miss the airframe tremendously.
Posted : 2010-06-04 17:59
cdemars12;27044 wrote: I'm flying one of the last Phrogs to Cherry Point with HMM-166. It's going to be my last flight in the mighty Phrog before transitioning to the Osprey.
I will miss the airframe tremendously.
When do you become VMM-166?
Posted : 2010-06-04 21:22
46-a
I was one of maybe 3 Crewchiefs that were sent to Patuxent River to train on the 46-A at the BIS trials in 1964. I was crewing for the first SAR rescue in the bird, out in the bay. Crewed the first 46 back to New River. Helped to crew several of the birds from Chester, Pa. One of the crewchiefs served only his short tour in the Corps and disappeared, - another, Norman Perry, died several years ago. I flew in them birds from 1964 to 1967, even when they were falling out of the air. - a lot of memories there! Semper Fi.:D
Posted : 2010-06-04 23:07
HMM-165 just finished their final deployment with CH-46s. They become VMM-165 in March 2011.
Posted : 2010-12-23 13:41
HMM-165 retires it's Phrogs
You know it HAD to happen, but somehow I didn't think it'd be NOW...My very first unit had CH-46s, HMM-365, as did all subsequent units, HMM-165 and HMM-163...All GREAT units with proud traditions of brave pilots and crews going in harm's way doing what Marines do when needed....The Mighty Phrog is nearing the end of her useful life in the Marine Corps. Semper Fidelis old gal, you always managed to get us home or to a point of relative safety, even if a wanna be pilot (Crew Chief) was driving. You'll be missed by all you saved and all who knew ya'!!!!
H-A-N-D SALUTE!
Posted : 2010-12-23 17:32
will be removed from USMC inventory in " 1984 "
is the year I was told they would retire the 46. I wasn't happy to hear it as I had just been handed my Qual papers copy and I planned on DOing 30 years !that was in 1973. I was a pfc soonto be l/cpl ,with TAD orders overseas ,AND a crew chief in CH 46 s, IN the Marines and the world was my OYSTER ! sf kc
non illigitimus carborundum:)MAF gripe ... deadbugs on windshield...action taken...R&R with live bugs!
Posted : 2010-12-23 17:44
And who will handle medevacs
It seems the Army will be handling emergency medivac from the battlefield as per this link.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40533246/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/ The Osprey may be a great bird but some things it's not equipped to do. If it gets the belly gun it could help but that won't help muc if at all in a hot LZ. Plus it just costs to damn much to put it in danger like they would with a chopper.
No doubt it's time to replace the old phrog but the Marine Corps still has a need for a helicopter.
Posted : 2010-12-23 19:39
Now that the 46 isretiring maybe they can get one in the Navy Air Museum at Pensacola they have one by the front gate at New River now. SF
Posted : 2010-12-23 21:39
who will handle?
Oh no johnnyr, the 46 must be retired, and the many Billion dollar osprey has to do it, as that is what they were made for. Thats all the Marine Corps needs, is for the army to do the med-e-vacs. READY-APP.
Posted : 2010-12-23 22:14
Phrog at Pensacola
Now that the 46 isretiring maybe they can get one in the Navy Air Museum at Pensacola they have one by the front gate at New River now. SF
Agree Walt, that is WAY overdue!! If it wasn't for Mike Clauson's MOH, the one in Charlotte wouldn't have been saved..So now we have two!!
The photos below is the last flight of the CH-46Ds.
Posted : 2010-12-24 08:40
Assets vs capability vs mission vs politics =
DEAD MARINES ! 😡 I didn't wanna say the obvious limitations of the 46 s supposed replacement cause you don't never now who reads our site !(Salami Ben Hiddin' ) but the cats out now ! 😮 CH-46 super X It's never too late ( I HOPE ) to put a bug or buggs in a politcos ear ! MISSION FIRST !sf kc P.S. all we really need is B-52s and a FEW MARINES ! 😀
non illigitimus carborundum:)MAF gripe ... deadbugs on windshield...action taken...R&R with live bugs!
Posted : 2010-12-24 08:52
MCAS Beaufort, SC Main Gate
Here's the one at MCAS Beaufort.
Posted : 2010-12-24 09:48
Mike Clausen's MOH bird in Charlotte
I mentioned Clausen's bird, and I found my pictures of it. Sorry, I'm in them too, but the bird looked really good in 2008, and I insisted they remove the external hoist, since they were re-creating his bird from 1970 and we didn't have them then.
Posted : 2010-12-24 12:55
Re: H-46 being phased out
Joe, in 3 of your 5 images in this thread, they are not correct. Your EG-263 #16 is labled as EP, which is HMM-265 Tail Code, and not EG-263 tail code. Echo-Papa, is not Echo-Golf. I believed it would be corrected by now, but hasn't been. Hmm-265 EP#16 is at the bottom of the ocean off Vietnam. I do not believe it was re-placed in '69. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.
Posted : 2010-12-27 19:32
Re: H-46 being phased out
Ace,
You're correct the label is incorrect, but the pictures ARE of the Clauson bird ad identified as so in the text. Clearly I'm NOT a typist! Can't correct it now without removing and replacing the pics and I'm not gonna do that at this time. I should know by now if there is anything to complain about here that you'll be the one to point it out.
Posted : 2010-12-28 10:20
Re: H-46 being phased out
Let's try the pictures again for the Mike Clausen bird with the correct Modex-EG-16
Posted : 2010-12-28 10:32
Re: H-46 being phased out
Looks like that will get it Big Joe. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.
Posted : 2010-12-29 00:40
