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More from our Army friends on the VHFCN

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Tom Thompson
(@tom-thompson)
Posts: 102
Estimable Member
Topic starter
 

This entry was interesting:

The question was asked if a private could work on a helicopter and completely tear it down to fix it in the field. Seeing as my primary MOS was aircraft engine mechanic I can answer that one.

First of all a private , rank is E-1 , would not be working on anything because a soldier has to go through all of their training and then schools before they got assigned to a unit. By the time they got into the field to work on anything their rank would now normally be at least an E-4 which is normally a specialist rank. Next any aircraft work is done in staged levels.
That means that the crew chief that is responsible for an individual aircraft would check fluid levels and clean filters plus check for any metal shards that get attracted to the magnetic chip detector plugs on the aircraft. These were installed in any area that had oil flowing through it.
The type and amount of metal gave you a heads up as to what was wearing out in your aircraft. If to much metal got into certain fluids it would generate an alarm for the crew to land immediately before the aircraft components failed. If it was the wrong component and it failed in flight the aircraft just might attain the glide ratio of a crowbar which is 10 feet down for every foot forward. It is called Preventive maintenance and has to be done every 25 hours of operational flight time. The crew chief looked at all of the components that make up his entire aircraft and made sure they all worked right.

Every 100 hours of operational flight time the aircraft has to go to a higher level of maintenance for two very important reasons. One is contamination of critical parts in the field and the other is tools. I worked at that level but under an odd set of circumstances. Normaly that level is called Direct support and you could think of it as having to go to the local garage. They were a separate unit and would support all of the helicopter units in a geographic area of Vietnam. That system is the same all over the world. Think of it as leaving your car at the dealership and trusting them to do the work on your vehicle. At this level of support people were very specialized and normally worked only on certain items on an aircraft. An engine man would only work on engines while a power train person did the transmission and any connecting power transfer tubes. Another person worked on the tail rotors and the main blades. Others worked on Avionics and others on Armament. Another group did all the sheet metal work to repair any normal wear or bullet holes.

As I said before I was supposed to only work on engines. In my case the Army ran a special test program that I was transferred to and they took one person from each specific job type and every direct support unit in Vietnam and put them into D troop 3/5 Cav. They then placed civilians to do the same job with A company of the 9th Av. This was to improve the availability of aircraft plus see if the Army people could do a better job than the civilians. Think of it as going out to your garage to work on your car and the local dealership had their mechanic drop in to help you. In this instance I did my job plus helped all of the other guys do their job. With only one guy for each specific job plus 27 aircraft to keep flying it was hard to keep up. If I finished my work then I helped the other guys with their work and we did that for a minimum of 14 hours a day 7 days a week.
Because we were now in an active unit rather than the garage that meant I also flew as a door gunner and had to go with the aircraft if we did any missions that took us away from our main base for 2 or more days. While a specific aircraft was being worked on the crewchief for that aircraft was usually there with us to check , verify and look over everything we did.
They needed to know what changes there were and what needed to be updated for the pilots that flew that aircraft.

Now while I could pull off the "hotend" of the engine to do all the required checks even I was limited as to what I could do because of equipment and some critical calculations. Just to pull the hotend , which was the back third of an engine I had to use a 10 foot long fence post on the end of 3/4 inch ratchet to break the heat sealed torque of the main bolt. It was put on with 100 foot pounds of torque. To break down the rest of the components of an engine a person would need several special benches just to hold the parts so they did not move and use hydraulic wrenches to separate them. At that point the engine was sent to a general support unit that was stationed on a ship in Vung Tau harbor where they did more technical work. Even their people had limitations and at a certain point the engines were sent to the states to be overhauled. The original engine on the aircraft was then replaced with either a new or remanufactured engine. For a long time the engines had to be replaced about every 1200 hours just to be checked out for normal wear. The reality is in a combat situation neither aircraft or engines last that long before being shot up or down. For the rest of the aircraft we also had areas that we could not work on like the main frame of an aircraft. If a bullet or a hard landing bent a floor spar , think of that as a support beam in a house , on an aircraft it had to be sent out to a GS level group because again they had the specialized equipment.

 
Posted : 2007-10-12 06:15
timothy
(@timothy)
Posts: 4415
Famed Member
 

What change when you enter civil aviation! An A&P mechanic does everything, engines, airframe, rotors, hydraulics, avionics etc. I did it for over 30 years.
S/F
Tim

 
Posted : 2007-10-12 12:21
Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
Posts: 0
New Member
 

Just curious. Are we talking about Marine Corps or Army here? I know in the Marine corps we had privates that worked on our birds all the time. Most of them had been up and down the ranks but, never the less knew their jobs and did them well. In fact, Mike Clausen was an E-2 PFC when he earned the Medal of Honor as a crew chief on a 46.

 
Posted : 2007-10-12 16:05
J Lynch
(@j-lynch)
Posts: 18
Active Member
 

from another crew chief

I don't know how the army works, but as far as the marine corps! I was one of those crewchiefs and until they changed things the flight crew was the total knowledge of how to tear it down and build it back up. No depot level maintenance in 66 - 67 if we didn't know how we had to learn fast even to pounding sticks into the holes in the trans to keep the fluid from leaking out of the bullet holes. Recip engines were torn down and jugs replaced in the field ask SKI and Boyles and some others. Just to throw in some ones opinion.
Jim Lynch, gysgt retired, befuddled and deranged

 
Posted : 2007-10-12 20:53
Anonymous
 Anonymous
(@Anonymous)
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New Member
 

I was a PFC when I got into country and one if the first things I had to do was to rebuild a Huey that was hit by mortors. Me and another PFC took two damadged Hueys and made one good one. After the metal shop repaired all the holes in the left over parts Bird we fixed that one also. I made Lance Corporal right after that and became a Crew Chief. I would say 75% of all our Crew Chiefs in VMO-2 where E-3 when we started out. I didn't make E-4 untill 9 months into my tour.
Marine Corps didn't belive in giving rank away, you had to prove yourself and earn it.

 
Posted : 2007-10-13 10:08
BartClu
(@bartclu)
Posts: 81
Trusted Member
 

Pace Set by Sq.

On Hueys in 66-67 at VMO2, the jet mech PFC's & LCPL's worked with the section leaders and crew chiefs from 0 dark thirty till evening chow. Huyes didn't have 1st mechs like the HMM's. Depending on the learning curve it could be 6 weeks to 3 months before a section leader let you take the NaTops for crew chief.......BUT by then, like Jardo says, we knew it. After that it came down to Flight Schedules and crew availablity, you might get to go do the major on your bird, you might work on the major 1 day and fill in on the flight schedule the next, or you might even get moved to another bird and shiped to Dong Ha....like our maintance chief said, improvise, adapt and overcome. The one thing we did have was E5 section leaders that knew their stuff and were'nt afraid to get dirty, and that helped alot. Back in the world at HMM764 everything was different. The Crew Chief & 1st mech did it all with the help of the varrious shops sending people to work specific problems.

 
Posted : 2007-10-21 21:37
stoney
(@stoney)
Posts: 1
New Member
 

Pace Set by Sq.

Bart, You are right on with that and thank you for remembering that of us that had to work in the shops and deal with all of the line pressure and shop pressure and sub as gunners helped keep all our Birds in the air for the common goal. Support our ground troops and kill the bad guys. Bob Stone VMO-2 Hyd. Shop 66/67:)

 
Posted : 2007-10-30 17:44
saltydog
(@saltydog)
Posts: 309
Reputable Member
 

more on army friends

I was a crew chief with HMM-265 in country 66-67 and as I recall ,I was responsible for all work preformed on my H-46. Of course the various shops did their on special works also. But we all worked together and it was not uncommon for different Mos's to work with each other. You might have a metalsmith helping a crewchief to change an engine or a crewchief helping a hydrualics mech on a system. Team work was the order of the day and that extended into flight ops. After all, the shop people were flying as gunners all the time.
After leaving the Corps in 68, I went to work for a civilian outfit back in country at Vinh Lon supporting the a1r cav. I worked on huey's and cross trained myself with the help of some former Army mech's who were civilian also. All of those guys had alot of knowlege about the huey and were hard chargers. We worked at the R&R level and I patched alot of bullet holes along with doing engine and trans, blades and flight controls, ect. I believe one of the main differnces between Army and Marine maint. crews, was that the Army flight crews were more of a seperate group from the more heavy maint. crews. Of course we Marines did both jobs. Oh yea, we were rifle men to, first and always! I had the pleasure of doing helo recovery a couple times out of Khe San and we were in the field with the grunts. But thats a story for another time!
S/F Saltydog:rolleyes:;)

 
Posted : 2007-11-01 11:17
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