.50's forever!

Weren't we glad when they finally did! It was a lot different looking at the M-60's, 7.62 rounds "curve" off in the wind than watching the .50 cals head straight for wherever we aimed them!! Charlie kept his head down a lot better when you could strafe the area with the "big guys". Watching those trees fall over with all that extra fire power was reassuring. The extra weight was a good feeling, and we didn't even mind carrying them. They were all so good, albeit old, we never went back to putting the A/C # on the guns. We just took whatever set the armorer said were good to go. NEVER had a problem with them.
Semper Fi
Joe

CH-46 guns

Al Hinton asked me who the '' PIED PIPER'' is? Well Al that was the name of my bird TV-4, Huey Gunship. Why do Ibring bring this up under this subject? After the ''MUFF DIVER''&''GREASY RIDER''& other Hueys Iremember a 46 either 362 or 364 Idon't know. On the side by the crew chiefs door was a black square with red ''heads'' ( for kills) the name''GRATEFUL DEAD'' ....................And sticking out of that door was a MINIGUN.

Minigun

I was in 364 when we had the minigun. Looked awesome, but never worked too well. We ran our Recon & medevacs with it . Put a stinger on the ramp with a M- 60. That was YK 21. Iv'e got a picture of it, but no scanner. Also more info. That was the good old days, kill em all & let God sort em out. In 364 new gunners got what the armourer gave them, & the salts got the same 50 for the time they were flying, usually 2 to 4 weeks. Pop the butt plate & set it on the cyclic rate of fire you were comfortable with. S/F ED

1stLt. Bob Marshall sitting besie the mini-gun which truly converted this CH-46 transport to a AH-46 gun ship named "The Putny Swope."
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Photo by, 1stLt. Robert L. Marshall

Pictures

M/GY/Sgt. Curtis, The picture I have is after that one. Sgt Sawyer, a black Marine was crew chief then. A very professional Marine & crew chief. He painted out the black armour plateing, drew a little African warrior on it with the kills underneath. He named it The Jungle Bunny. Flew with the Sgt. quite often. S/F ED

HMM-262 arrived in Vietnam, with a squadron of CH-46A's in December 1966 and we were equipped with the M-60. We had qualified with the 60 before going overseas. I was transferred to HMM-164 in February 1967. This squadron was already using the .50 cal. machine guns and never used anything less while I was there and that was until August 1968. It would make you take notice --- Loved it.

😀 Joined HMM265 in September 1967 and all our 46As had 50s, never did see M60s on any of our birds. Felt sorry for those that had only the M60s. The 50s got me out of trouble a lot times.
One too many beers agin.
SEMPER FI
Bear:D

M-60's VS 50 Cal.

In addition to Sam's comment, it was just about that time, or shortly thereafter (FEB/MAR '67) that HMM-262 was issued the 50 Cal. I am not questioning the veracity of the source of the information in the original posting, however, I really don't remember seeing any Phrogs with anything less than the 50 Cal. from about mid-'67 until we rotated to CONUS in Dec '67. It would be interesting to hear from the other Phrog squadron crews.

By the way, when was this picture taken? HMM-262 did not have that armor-plating in 66-67.

P.S. Would have loved to have had a mini-gun!!!

M60's on '46's

HMM-165 had M60's from my arrival in November '67 until at least Feb. '68 when we were on the Valley Forge. I remember qualifying with the .50 cals from the ship. Unfortunately, I don't remember which ship! We were on the Valley Forge during Jan./Feb. '68 until we returned to Phu Bai after TET. We were back aboard ship in May/June (Tripoli). Clearly we began 1968 with M-60's. Anybody remember when we switched, more clearly?
Semper Fi
Joe

Joe,

165 got our first '50's on a trade, don't ask of what..hehehe

We got 5 sets of 50's in about Nov 0f '66. They were "ground" 50's and had such a slow rate of fire you could take a nap in between the rounds going off.

Personally, I hated the 50's and always took '60s when I could. I liked the accuracy of the '60s. You could put a burst into a basketball sized target at quite a ways out. The '50s just made a lot of noise and were, in my opinion, just good for covering an area the size of a baseball diamond. You just didn't have the stability with them to be much more accurate.

.50 Cals in CH-46s

We trained with .50 Cals in HMM-265 prior to arriving in country. We fired .50s at a towed sled, flying off of the USS Boxer, on our way to RVN during March/April 1966. Once in country, we used M-60s when weight was an issue, such as resupplies, and as backup for the .50s.

As I recall, all our aircraft were equipped with, and used, .50s during Operation Hastings, which kicked off 15 July '66.

S/F
Tim Bastyr

Originally posted by Sam
HMM-262 arrived in Vietnam, with a squadron of CH-46A's in December 1966 and we were equipped with the M-60. We had qualified with the 60 before going overseas. I was transferred to HMM-164 in February 1967. This squadron was already using the .50 cal. machine guns and never used anything less while I was there and that was until August 1968. It would make you take notice --- Loved it.

Yup! The .50 Cal and 200 rounds per gun. UMPH! Only in the down time for the retrofit with HMM 163 in late '67 did we get any gun time with the M-60.

At night when taking on a ground .50 outside Hue with those big red shooters growing bigger as they arched upwards at you and growing bigger as they closed, like basket balls and returning those little orange dit dots at the muzzle flashes sure seemed just a smidge inadequate. Popping Pink elephants at over 3000 yards seemed like fun. Sorry PETA? (see free fire zone and I-Corps NDN country near Khe Sahn.)

Sam, Ever hear from Willie Williams. Doesn't he or didn't he hail from the West Coast out here near LA?

Hey!Gunny I'm not arguing here, it is just a fact; we just had .50's in HMM 164 as the weapon of choice in 1967 and 1968. I left the same time as Sam did, in August of 1968. In HMM 163 they had .60's in those wonderful old eggbeaters. We flew with them for time and money until they put Band-Aids on our aft pylons.

My first aerial firefight was in a CH-34 and it was as I described. The most we ever put out from my plane was over 200 rounds of .50 ammo on a single mission. That is according to the flight log and after action reports. During that particular mission, I wasn't able to cap a round from my gun due to the Team being directly in front of my gun and they were engaged in hand to hand. It was only after our third time in the zone and the Recon team filing on board that they manned my gun and both weapons were activated. One by Jerry Siudzinski my gunner and a Recon team member who was one of the first to pop out of the grass and get aboard. I was out the back trying to kick the last couple of Marines on board as they were caught up in the moment and were trying to win the war by themselves. All's I know is that I saw both Major Bob Nelson and Lt. Tim Timmons looking back at me, as I had to disconnect the comm. cord to go out and find them. As I frantically motioned to the pilots to get out of there, I saw the Recon and Jerry chopping away on all guns as the rest of team were having a " Mad Minute" out my winders, which were never in anyways.

I smile when I see photos of 46's with the winders or portholes plugged with Plexiglas. That luxury went out the preverbal winder on my first fire mission. Any windows that survived the initial shooting were removed by my handy dandy USMC issued multi tasking screw driver and promptly disposed of in the s#*t can.

Amicalement and Semper Fidelis

Charle' YT-6

Here is a photo of the CH-46 with M-60s taken in 1966

one more from early 67

Marines embarking into a CH-46, 1966
Marines embarking into a CH-46, 1966 OFFICIAL USMC PHOTOS FROM 1966 Submitted by:Bob Carroll

YK-21 w/mini

There is a picture of YK-21 fitted with a mini on the Foxes site. www.hmm-364.org , photo albums, 1969, page 8. Though I did fly as a gunner on YK-21 a few times, there was never an occasion to see this in action. I also seem to recall another YK 46 that crew chief had fitted with twin-M60's, can't sem to fins a picture.

Semper Fi

Cpl Ski

cnowotny;14446 wrote:

Sam, Ever hear from Willie Williams. Doesn't he or didn't he hail from the West Coast out here near LA?

Amicalement and Semper Fidelis
Charle' YT-6

I remember a Black Marine named Willie Williams. He was at Memphis same time I was. He was an ex-grunt turned airdale. Unfortunately, if this is the Marie you are asking about, he was killed in air to air training accident at New River in 1967.

John Coke HMM-263 (65-66)

New River Accident

That would have been when the Huey and the CH-53 got together over the base....Bad deal..:(

Yep, as I heard it, the Huey flew up into the rear ramp.

John

Johnny Did It;23022 wrote: I remember a Black Marine named Willie Williams. He was at Memphis same time I was. He was an ex-grunt turned airdale. Unfortunately, if this is the Marie you are asking about, he was killed in air to air training accident at New River in 1967.

John Coke HMM-263 (65-66)

There was a Black Marine by the name of A. Y. Williams. He served in HMM-164 in Vietnam, was stationed in Memphis teaching Aviation Mechanics, returned to Vietnam. He is alive and well, living in New Orleans.

50 cals on Phrogs- timing.

Ed, taking the butt plate off and turning a knob to re-time the 50 just was not the way to do it. Too big a chance of getting caught and grounded. I am so glad I was in 265, because the 1st thing I was taught in becoming a Crew Chief, was to take your stubby and with the common point close the head space on each 50 by 2 clicks, and it would certainly double the rate of fire for sure. Then before landing at home base that day, just open them up 2 clicks. NO getting caught, and for sure no grounding. Some tell me, 'Why that was dangerous'. Danger was the business we were in, from what I remember.

Semper Fi

I was with HMM 161 and HMM 262 in 69-70 and although I was trained as a machine gunner with M60 at Camp Gieger the only time we used it was as a stinger on the back of the Ramp.

50 cal & M-60s

Confirm Larry. 4 50cals, two each side and the M-60 on the ramp.

Semper Fi

Bruce "Howdy" Mayor HMM-161 '69-'70

4-50's and a 60 on the ramp, 265, EP-14

Yes Bruce. 265 had a Gun Ship as well, EP-14. Our Batalion CO., a Col. Doty directed us to break the mount out, and add 2 more 50's and a 60 on the ramp in June of '69, while we were flying off the USS Iwo-Jima, LPH-2, in support of the 9th MAB. The COL. insisted on being in the cockpit,( He wanted it to be his Command Gunship before the Amphibious Landing the Battallion performed on the Area), so I had a bench made to stradle the console for him to sit on, where the Pilots could still get to all the switches and knobs on it. We did good for quite some time, but the gooks shot us down on 2 July'69. We had two mission periods a day. A dawn Patrol with 2-4 missions, and a Dusk Patrol with 2-4 missions. The entire AO was a free fire zone, and everything was fair game. Needless to say, all guns were used all of the time. The 50 cal., was the best weapon to be on a '46 Period. I could get on target with only 1 round, in any flight manouver. Usually 2 rounds was all I needed per target, but some required a box or so to be fired. After adding 4 plus modifications, and increasing the Fuel load to 5000 pounds, the H-46 has been reduced to an obsolete joke. I know I carried 19, 20,& 21 combat ready packs before on inserts and extractions in I Corps, and now its lucky to get 5 packs off the ground. The '46A was the best troop carrier the Corps had, until they started trying to make it better. They had best strip it, only carry 2500 pounds of fuel, and send it to Afghanistan, if they want the job done again. The 100 million v-22 certainly will not see a mountain top insertion, and after the 3rd, or 4th- '53 is shot down doing it, they will have to do something, for sure. Figure 2 million for a '46, and close to 40-50 million for a '53, and 100 million for a v-22. Facts are rough, aren't they?