Popasmoke

Of all that I have done in my life/career, being given Combat Aircrew Wings by the crewchiefs of HMM-165 and being accepted as a member of Popasmoke rate the highest. When Joe Morin told me at the reunion last year in Fort Worth that the CAW I was given were his, I was moved to tears.

My wife says that seeing me at the reunions with my USMC buddies gave her an insight into me that she could not have gotten any other way. She did say that she had thought I was unique but now she knows there are thousands just like me.

The proposal leaves me with mixed feelings.

1. I hate to mess with something that works so well.

2. If there had not been changes to the original charter, I could not have been accepted as a member.

On balance I favor the proposed changes.

From a grateful Limey civilian.

How about this? (or something similar)

USMC/COMBAT HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION

FORMERLY

USMC/VIETNAM HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION

This (or something like this) brings in the NEW meaning of what the CORPS has evolved to AND keeps the ORIGINAL foundation of what we did to bring this GREAT ORGANIZATION into what it has become today. Without us and Vietnam this organization would not exist.

Tom Knowles
VMO-2

For years prior to the Las Vegas reunion I had been searching for kndred souls. Those souls who spoke my language, who had shared so many of the same experiences, from training to combat and back, and of course who were Marines. I joined the VHPA which turned into an Army Assoc. that arrogantly, but subtly, at first, began to exclude Marines from many decisions and participating in the shaping of the org. I left, once again looking for a home. I found it that weekend in Vegas and since began a long love affair with 'our' association. Friendships were rekindled, old familiar tales were heard again. I was home. Over these many years decisions about inclusion of Aircrew and Korean War veterans were made by Roger Herman. Great decisions! and it was still pretty much his organization so he could do what he wanted.
His latest request, is to once again to change our name and now include the current warriors fighting in too many wars. But I strongly believe that the decision is premature for the following reasons:

1. We have yet to reach the depth of loss the WWII vets have and from what I have seen there seems to be no lagging of spirits to shoulder the responsibilities of this organiation.

2. Mostly strongly! I fear the loss of our identity. Being a Vietnam Vet has set aside from so many other Veterans. High among them was seeing the country turn its back on us. The hostility was palpable from every corner of our world. The worst was the media. We were losers, ( I have an aversion to Lucky the Dog because to me he perpetuates the myth) the first fighting force that 'lost a war.' Personal experiences with the American Legion, the VFW were so negative that I have yet to cross the door of any of the these organizations.
We are unique because we fought back, stood our ground, forced the world to look at for what we were, honest, caring young men who had with honor and distinction done what our Country asked us to do. We have fought for everything we should have been due, to demand help with the Agent Orange issue and forcing the hand of our Nation's leaders to allow us a place, a hallowed piece of ground to honor our dead, to begin our healing.
Yes, we are a part of the larger community of Veterans, now and those to come. But this is our time now, let us keep our group as it, let us avoid the possibility of becoming so much larger that we get lost in the shuffle of these new brave warriors. I have seen it happen.
When the time comes many years down the road we can revisit the inclusion of our new warriors.

3. What now could be a large influx of members would task the organization's administration. Logistics would be an absolute nightmare, to the point were we would have to consider an outside organization to manage it for us, as the VHPA has done...their problems are many and dues increased.
I propose a moratorium on the change of the organiations direction and the change of its name...It should always be/have Vietnam in its name lest we forget and that future generations may forget. Let us wait for for a less emotional time to make this decision.
We are unique! please do not take that from me, from us. Do not take my home from me.

Semper Fi,

Bill Beardall
Dimmer 11 HMH-463

Re: USMC / COMBAT HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION

Roger,
The reason there may be some confusion, and I have read posts from some new combat helo pilots and crew that assume this is a done deal, and, because what we got out of the last POP A SMOKE publication was light on details and heavy on emotions. We are all feeling concerned about what is going on in the world and here close to home with our own Association. It comes across as a done deal, when our founder and the current President come out so strongly in favor of this change, This kind of change should have been raised to the membership as a trial balloon "this is what we are thinking , here are some pro and some cons. We need feedback from you all before we go much forward." Are we ready to go forward if we get a large influx of members to give a professional [for profit] organization our management reins?
#3 says the name Pop A Smoke does not go away, nor does our logo...but when you change Combat for Vietnam the association begins to shift.
#5 You propose to make our new warrior members full members but it sounds like they will be in name only. 'We will run it...'until we are all gone.' so, then they are not full members , Associates perhaps?
#6 No one wants the organization to disappear but it will when we are gone. We will be remembered and talked about for many, many years to come. We will have the stories we submit, there will be oral histories and videos to view time and time again.
#7 I have not read in any post where any of us think we are better than any Marine that fought and are fighting our Nation's battles. Beyond what we experienced when we came back, what we experienced there was radically different than any combatants since...remember not being able to return fire over certain zones?, having to check with village chiefs if was OK to do so...take a hill today, give it up tomorrow, the heck with those who died in the taking. WE did not lose the war, history tells us why we left...Mission unaccomplished!
#9 None of us believe these men and women are undeserving of an organization such as ours. It would be good for them to find their special place where they can share their memories. I sit around and listen to my father-in law tell his stories about Saipan, Tarawa, Okinawa and I can appreciate and listen in awe. There is a connection, but I will never fully appreciate what they went through as we will not those in Iraq and Afghanistan, nor they ours.
Our numbers do get smaller but we are not at a critical mass yet, nor will be for awhile.
#10 I strongly believe that this reunion is not the time to make a decision. This is a decision that must be made by the whole membership be it by email or snail mail. It should be preceded by calm, cool, open and frank discussions. It is our organization and still the USMC/Vietnam Helicopter Association.

Semper Fi

Bill Beardall

Originally posted by Lucky The Dog
Guys -

It is obvious from all of the replies on this thread, that you have all received and read the latest Pop A Smoke newsletter. Unfortunately, some of you seem to have read something different than what was printed and jumped to some erroneous conclusions.

As the author of the newsletter piece, let me clarifly a few points to those of you who disagree with the concept of the name change of the organization and the allowing in (as full fledged members) of those Marine combat helicopter aircrews who have been and are continuing to carry on our tradition...

1. The name of our organization has changed three times since its inception in 1986. This is not the first time as some have stated.

2. I am not proposing allowing in members from all other services.

3. The name "Pop A Smoke" doesn't go away, nor does our logo sticker with the "smiley '34" on it. Only the word "Combat" gets substituted for the word "Vietnam."

4. Incidentally, for those who have not noticed before, when I made up the original logo design, the background was specifically created to be a replica of the South Vietnamese flag. That doesn't change. Our Vietnam origins will live on in the logo.

5. Were we to implement this change, by vote of the membership, the Association would still continue to be run by those of us who started and have continued to run the organization...the Vietnam vets...until we are all gone.

6. Hundreds of thousands, no millions, of manhours have been put into the building of this organization by a relatively few. Do you really want to see it disappear when we do? I think not.

7. Just because we fought in Vietnam, does that make us any better than any other Marine who has fought to defend this country...whether we are talking about our fathers in WWII at Guadalcanal, Iwo, etc. or our sons in Iraq and Afghanistan...and other battlefieds soon to follow. Did we get a raw deal when we fought in Vietnam and when we came home? Without a doubt we did...but get over it and get on with your life. **** happens...I don't like losing either.

8. We are in WWIII, in my opinion, and it will continue until such time as the Islamic extremists are completely taken out. It will be a long war and we are going to lose a lot of troops and civilians.

9. I challenge all that would oppose this idea of opening up the Association to fellow Marine combat helicopter pilots and aircrew to do this...Look one of them directly in the eye and tell them they are not worthy of belonging to a group that was started by fellow Marines just like them, but just happened to have fought in a different war. The bond that ties us all will not change, and the nucleus of the organization will continue to be the Vietnam vet...until we are all gone. And we are losing a lot of guys these days. We are not that far behind the passing of the WWII generation.

10. Finally, I would urge all who are truly interested and want to get involved in their own Association, to attend the annual BOD meeting that will be held in Reno on Wednesday, July 7th in the afternoon at the Reno Hilton. It is open to all members. If you really want to be a part of the solution and not part of the problem, get involved. As was said early by one of our members in the forming of our group when some had complaints of one sort or another..."Where were you when the page was blank?"

Semper Fi,

Rog

Changing the name of the organization

We are getting ready to head west for the reunion and I entered the site to see what was cooking. It seems to me that a lot of people have lots of opinions-that is a good thing. I read Rogers last response and it made sense-

However - with regard to the comments about getting involved, I believe that all the folks who have made comments pro and con have become involved. That proves that this organization is healthy. I don't remember when I found this group, I do remember finding members of 262 after about 30 years. Frankly being with those that I served with in vietnam is the main attraction to me. I can refresh my waining memories and experiences and celebrate what we accomplished and our survival. We can remember those that made the supreme sacrifice.

The full membership should vote on the issue and the results should be respected by everyone.

Semper Fi!

I attended the Marine Corps Ball with HMM263 at New River in July before their second deployment to Iraq, I am in contact and recieve emails from their CO LtCol. Ozzie Osborn, as of this tour which is less than 6 months old, they have 22 Purple Hearts, 1 KIA, I have met these Marine Warriors and they are carrying on the great tradition, they Honored me as one of the Guests of Honor and I honor them as Marine Warriors, they did not forget Viet Nam, we should not forget them. I now believe as long as you are a Marine, in Combat and in Helicopters you belong with us, or should I say we belong with them? I take the qoute " often tested, always faithful, brothers forever" quite seriously. We need to Honor them as well as ourselves. I would like nothing better than to be at a reunion with the old 263 and the new 263 at the same table.

Semper Fi, Ron Luks HMM263 1966/67