Latest

Presume the latest must be the title apparently changed. Having been there WWII, Korea , Vietnam +couple operations I never could distinguish the difference , a Veteran was a Veteran. Never was present for the returing celebrations or spitting idiots as the case might have been. As a USMC regular had my tours extended for occupation etc. However when I attended the WWII reunions found that most of them only served during that 4 year period and were isolated pretty much from any other conflict. The Korean group pretty much felt like it was a forgotten war and seldom participated in reunions. I found that I had progressed through these periods and felt more at home with the Vietnam veterans. I am sure that some others like Col Clapp felt the same. We have heard very little on the NOTAM Board from that particular group and I am aware only to well that we are a small & disappearing group. Most I served with in later years were the age of my sons & daughters. I considered them as my sons & brothers. Hope that whatever the changes are that this organization will accept each of us as individuals in a close family & hear our voices!! Semper Fi PM

I served 4 tours in Vietnam (67-71) flying as a Crew Chief in all of them earning my Combat Air Crew Wings over and over again crewing UH-34Ds, UH-1E Gunships and CH-46s.

I had the extraordinary privilege of doing in all over again in Grenada and Beirut as a Crew Chief in UH-1N Gunships and CH-46s.

I was present and "PROUD" to participate in the awarding of the Combat Air Crew Wings to 35 enlisted Marines of HMM-261 for Combat action in Grenada and Beirut , HMM-261 lost CH-46s, AH-1T Tow Cobras and CH-53S along with three KIA Pilots and a number of wounded. Having experienced first hand Combat in Vietnam over 4 different years in three different types of Helicopters, I am PROUD to sit in the company of those Combat Air Crew that followed us after Vietnam.

I would be PROUD to welcome those Air Crews, Officer and Enlisted as POPASMOKE Combat Air Crew BROTHERS.

Having read the proposal, I agree whole heartly. George is correct (as usual). Let act on this.

Well put MGySgt Curtis, the FNG's Combat Air Crews desire our respect and welcome. They are flying in harms way to keep a world free to say what we want on this site and wherever. I Thank Them.
Top C thank you for all your tours, you let someone stay home.
I was in Oki when Gernada went down, we knew little about it, but knew something was happening from increased combat training.
I also agree wiyh the post VFW was going to join at Whidbey Island in 73/74 but got trash about how NAm Vets were not vets but killers etc from some WWII people so told them to stick it, Have no loca one here so sent email to their site and asked how do I find closet one, got all different reason why no one could tell, just an long distance phone nr not toll free.

I think that the name change and the gesture of inclusion is great. We can and should welcome these new "salts"; they are doing what we did, and I'll bet most of us envy them. We may have aged out, but we're not "armchair commandoes".

As long as they can spell UH-34, and pay appropriate homage to the origins of this association of characters, then they should be welcomed aboard.

Maybe they'll even put some character and fresh approaches into the dialogues that may evolve. It would be welcome.

I have a simple question. Why limit the proposed expansion to "combat" Marines? What exactly qualifies as "combat" - feet dry on some operation, or just in the carrier task force, or what else? In other words, why not include all Marine Helo veterans?

Marine Helos

Ben,
This Association has always welcomed brother and sister Marines with open arms. The previous criteria was Marines, Helicopters or Vietnam. Now it includes Combat from all eras, officially. The Helicopter folks, Pilots and Crews have always been welcome here. Although I have yet to receive my new newsletter that everyone is talking about, that is my understanding.
Welcome aboard.
Semper Fi
Joe

I think welcoming our younger brother's into our organization is long over due. As it was said earlier we envy them, and I for one admire them. I work for NADep Cherry Point as a CH-53E mechanic and have the pleasure to work along side several Iraqi Freedom veterans and they are no different than we were when we came home. Not all who served in the theater had the priviledge to crew aircraft or pilot them, but they supported them and they should be welcomme as well.

Welcome Marine Brothers and Sisters !!!

Semper Fi, K.D. Logue

USMC/Vietnam Helicopter Association~~!

When I joined in 1998 it was because the servicemen & women "were special", fighting on foreign soil & America fighting against us, calling us baby killers & murders. It was an "unpopular" war, but we followed orders & did our duty. Todays wars are american approved & present a whole different approach to the new serviceman & women. Let them form there own group, we will :ALWAYS: be Vietnam Veterans & damn proud of it~~~!

The "whole" world knows us as USMC/Vietnam Helicopter Association or "Pop A Smoke"~~!

Why change a "good" name for a new name?

I DON'T agree that the name should be changed, Pop A Smoke is Pop A Smoke~~!

Pop A Smoke

Pop A Smoke is the web site name and that wouldn't change, as I understand it.

Semper Fi
Joe

Thank you fellow Marines

I would like to thank all of you for allowing us FNG's to join this organization. When I was told about this site I did not think I could become a member because I did not serve in Viet Nam. But as I read the posts in the NOTAM board I found that I have had some of the same experiences, I decided to submit my application to join and was accepted into this prestigious group of Marines. I have been a crewchief on the CH-53D while on active duty and on the UH-1N while in the reserves. I had the privaledge to work with and learn from many Viet Nam veterans. Most of my knowledge of the CH-53D came from Marines that flew and worked on them in Viet Nam. For that I am thankful, the knowledge I gained from these Marines has stayed with me through the years and to this day I could still fire up the APU and do my pre-flight checks. While in Desert Storm my C.O. was Al Boudreaux a Viet Nam UH-34/CH-46 pilot. In addition to Col. Boudreaux, we still had a few senior enlisted Viet Nam vets in the squadron, they all contributed to our success as a unit and we all learned from them. They calmed the fears and concerns of some of our younger Marines, and were determined not to let us make mistakes that would get us killed. Thanks for letting me ramble on, I am proud to be a member of this organization, no matter what it's name is. Semper Fi.

Chris Breaux
Crewchief UH-1N, CH-53D
HML-767, HMH-362, HMM-261, HMH-461

I do not believe there is any thought of changing the POP A SMOKE name.

The idea put forth as I read it is to open "Full Membership" up to the USMC Helicopter types and their support personnel like Corpsman and Flight Surgeons that have served the USMC Helicopter community in Combat since Vietnam to include Marines serving in Helicopter Units of all MOSs.

As I read the newsletter, I believe the name change to USMC Combat Helicopter Association in place of USMC Vietnam Helicopter Association is a simple welcome mat put forth to open our ranks of Full Membership to these Combat Brothers.

Marines - Helicopters - Combat

Good reply, Curt. I welcome the opportunity to agree with you.

Despite Mack's caution, and as Joe Reed well pointed out, Pop A Smoke is merely the name of this site, not of our Association.

The Association has evolved and expanded to be more properly inclusive from the very start and has had name changes in order to reflect that. Originally, it was just for pilots - Roger and some of his cohorts. Then, realizing that we were never alone, the white knights of the cockpit, we made sure that we included our aircrews. Since avionics, metalshop, etc. was all essential in getting our butts into the air, accomplishing the mission, and safely rtb, we became an organization to include all who were involved in our common bond: Marines, Helicopters, Vietnam. That was our focus, our raison d'etre.

Now that our sons, the next generation of Marines, are undergoing the same experience of sucking up the seat cushion, of being burned from the hot brass as they throw out fire, it is not only proper, but consistent with the spirit of our charter, that we include them.

We don't exist for the purposes of wannabes, camp followers, curiosity seekers, and non-hackers. That is the tail wagging the dog. They may perhaps follow along, as the tail does with the dog, but they should remain at the appropriate end of the dog.

Ours was a unique experience that is now being renewed by a new breed being Marines in the face of the enemy. Let's keep that focus: Marines - Helicopters - Combat.

In our case, it's an eligibility earned a long time ago by having been through a crucible. It is being renewed today by a new breed in the Middle East. And really, as they conduct themselves with dedication to duty, courage and honor, they are part of an unbroken line.

We need to welcome them or we deny ourselves. They might bring a shake and wake to an increasingly moribund group, bringing with them the fire of recently shared experience and the why and the how of it.

Not to be "elitist", but we lose our unique being if we do not restrict membership and opinionated participation to those who have served in combat active helicopter operations, to include, of course, support roles.

Welcome aboard, New Breed. We're proud of you, we envy you, and you keep our long-ago role relevant.

Membership

Larry you posed a question that many have wondered about. You than asked the same question many have asked. Where are the voices of the lost members?? Looks like that is the problem. The term "Full membership" should include the consideration of these Marines imputs. Does not require that each time there is a disagreement that the established program would be changed. The Marine Corps I knew had a cross section of Marines all with their views , but still all Marines with a common bond. Seems like a good idea to include Marines that are serving now as we all have at some period . As KD said we envy those that are in active service & know that they carry on with the efforts that all of us gave to the Corps. Seems "Communication & Consideration" as Marines & for Marines should take priority over "policticaly correctness". " Combat Helicopter Association" This suggests an elite Helicopter group. There is a lot of leeway as to which Helicopter missions are classified as "Combat". Med evacs VS gunship, resupply , insertions. Too much that is subjective to administrative orders. When you are being shot at and completing your assigned task , expect you think perhaps this might be combat !!! So much for this voice from the ancient past. Semper Fi PM

COMBAT ~ ~ ~ NO~!

When I joined, I joined because it was "VIETNAM", I know this group started with Helo Pilots with a membership of 200, so as time marches on the membership will drindle
again to 200 & eventually gone. That's the way it suppost to be: FOR VIETNAM VETS~!@

I DON'T agree that we welcome Army, Navy, Airforce & civilians to our membership, it just make "keeping in touch" & "sharing vietnam" stories that much harder with the younger servicemen.

COMBAT~! I think NOT, what about the helo crews & support group of non-combat??

To many questions come up with a name change~! It changes the "original" idea & membership. Let the new guys form there own group. I recommend that we leave it alone~!

Nam Vets

Bulldog,
While I see your points, I must respectfully disagree. I don't, however, see where we are inviting other service branches to join here as you suggest. We're still Marines with a few Corpsmen thrown in for good measure.
The guys from Desert Storm, under Bush 41, even flew the same airplanes we flew in Viet Nam. Heck, the CH-46 folks STILL are! I think we owe them that respect.
Ed Egan's words say it very well.
Semper Fi, Sir
Joe

We just had 3,000 USMC/VIETNAM HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION patches made for the reunion, and it is too late to change them now.

I remember that at the 1996 reunion some Marine helicopter crewmen from the Korean War were welcome aboard. Since I don't think I'll be one of the last 2 guys, I don't have a problem letting the the next generation come aboard. At the 2002 reunion we were lucky to get aircraft, and crews from my old squadron HML-167. They were younger than us, but cut from the same material.

Allyn Hinton, Vietnam and Desert Storm Vet.

Association

As you can see, I have deleted both of my earlier postings. My dues are due November of this year. I will not be renewing them and will become one of those that has left this bunch of politically correct, self-serving, egotistical, better than thou people. Do want you want with the Association without the input of the general membership. We don't count in your minds anyway. I prefer that you no longer make any contact with me because I simply have come to the conclusion that I don't like you. Thanks for times past, it is very evident they will not be repeated.
Semper Fi
Gunny Powell

Name Change

As much as we would like to think that we have an exclusive right to our membership, (just as some before us did), what our brother's in arms have done and are doing now gives them the right and privilege of belonging to our organization. When I read about it in the latest issue of Pop-a-Smoke, it made me feel good to realize that we had evolved as far as we have. Keep up the good work.

Semper Fi

In my earlier post I stated that welcomeing the New Breed aboard was OK. But a NAME Change No Way, That's one of the reasons I visit this site. As others have stated it allowed me to find old friends. But sounds like the HEAD SHELD has made thier minds up and it's their show. A;ready seen many disappear from using site with the lost of "Ready Room", and this board they do not want conversations expect about Marines, NAM etc can not have any like ready room did or a instant message between two or three people.
Guess leaders are under the Mushrooms or maybe like a patch I saw in the book "The Raid, " Kept in the dark and feed horse ****"

Other Branches

Gunny Mack has made me aware that we have members from other branches of the Armed Forces in our Association. I guess I have been asleep at the wheel here, as I haven't noticed. How come?? Why are Air Force, Army, etc in the Marine association? I certainly understand and support Corpsmen and the like that flew with us days on end. I have NOTHING against the fine men and women that wear the other uniforms, however, why are they in this association?? I keep asking the question because I can't answer it myself, though I've tried. Please help.....
Semper Fi
Joe

P.S. Gunny Mack,
Please accept my apologies for my taking issue before checking out the facts!

This is the first time I have opened my mouth on the forum, but want to give my input. I have read the previous posts and pondered on them for at least five minutes. I believe I must side with the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" group.
I am proud of our servicemen of today and I too believe that we are ALL a band of brothers, BUT we have all that in the Marine Corps League! And if you are a veteran of a foreign war, you can join the VFW or the Amvets.
Some day some fella well start the Desert Storm Chopper Floppers and they can decide who they want to have in their group. BUT we are a special bunch and we talk about special things that only we know about. One day we will pass on to the eternitys and our little organization can pass on with us. We have an identity now, we are different from all the other service organizations, why not keep it that way? Do we want to be a little for everybody or alot for us few and proud?
Thanks for all that you guys do. Remember that this great country was founded on a constitution that is VERY HARD to make any changes to! And it was designed that way for a purpose.
Thanks for hearing out this ole gyrene. Love you guys

Newsletter

I just recieved my copy of the news letter, and I read the article that is in question. I have to agree, the name change is a nice proposal. Being a Marine that served after the Viet Nam war, I appreciate the oppertunity to be considered for full membership. I feel that I may not be qualified to speak on this subject, but I since I am a Marine I can put my two cents in. There will never be another war like Viet Nam, just like there will never be another Desert Storm. We all have two things in common with each other, one we are Marines, and two, we served in combat. Both wars were conducted in very different fashions. My uncle who was a Marine veteran of Iwo Jima once said to me that as times change, wars and conflicts will be conducted differently. As it turned out, he was right.
I too have have gone to the VFW hall and wanted to join, but some of the older crowd were cold to the question of allowing a Desert Storm veteran into their little group. I got the feeling that if you did not earn a Purple Heart or a Distinguished Flying Cross then you were not a "real" combat veteran. They needed to see my DD-214 to verify combat in a foreign conflict. The comment was made "Oh, I see you were awarded Combat Aircrew wings and an AIr Medal, the Marines must have been desperate for hero's" That comment sealed it for me. I have never been back since and throw away the letters asking me to join.
I hope that the proposed name change does not cause members to look elseware, that would be a shame. As for being part of the "New Breed" as Mr. Ed Egan put it, I thank you for the oppertunity to be a member of this group.

Chris Breaux
Crewchief UH-1N and CH-53D
HML-767, HMH-362, HMM-261, HMH-461

Name Change

I think we should step lightly and slowly. Don't just "ready, fire, aim."

As I watch my father-in-law's legacy change, I see lots of problems and hurt feelings.

He was an orginal WW II UDT 3 member and fought in the Pacific Theatre. Originally, there was a UDT 3 Veterans group as part of a larger UDT Veterans Group.

Over time, the seals were allowed to join. Also, over time the number of WW II Vets has substantially declined in both numbers and health. The original UDT 3 members are almost non-existant.

Recently, the board of the Fort Pearce UDT / Seal Museum changed the name to Navy Seal Museum. It created lots of hurt feelings.

In building a consensus, I suggest doing two different and difficult things: keep the Vietnam legacy, but recognize that in a few decades we will be all gone. Therefore, some change and transition will be inevitable. Fifty years from now, if its just Geo Curtis and me left, we will want an organization, we will want to be recognized as 'Nam veterans, but we would not want only two members!