Sgt. out of PI?

don't think so. Back then, you were lucky to get PFC. Now, they can get LCpl. Fort Rucker for pilot training - some did. WO's for Marine Pilots - not since Korea that I know of. Paul Moore would know for sure. Send me an pm with his name and what squadron's he said he flew with and I will check the database.

wanna be

I flew as a pilot for HMM 263 IN 1970.

I never saw a Warrent Officer pilot. As a 1st Lt., I probably held the lowest rank among the pilots.

I went to Army Flight School from Basic School Sept. 1968 to May 1969. Between 1967 and 1971 the Army trained about 300 Marines a year. We took primary flight at Fort Wolters, TX, and advance flight at Hunter Army Air Field Savannah, GA. Marines might have gone to Fort Rucker, but not before 1969. As for warrant officer pilots in my 12 years of active duty 1968-1980 I crossed paths with only 3 in the Corps. When I was at Camp Pendleton with HML-267 June-Nov. 1969 there was a warrant officer pilot in 267. I do not recall his name, but he was pretty old and had been flying for a long time. I think he told me he had been an enlisted pilot. The other was Henry Wildfang VMGR-252 Cherry Point. Henry was a major in WW II, then an enlisted pilot, and knew enough not to take a commission again, and took a warrant so he could just fly. The 3rd was another pilot I saw once at Cherry Point Base Ops around 1974 when I was filing a flight plan. The one thing they all had in common was they were much older than me. In Sept. 1970 I had my 28th birthday in 'nam, and I had to be one of the oldest 1st Lt. in MAG-16, because I'd served 3 years enlisted 1960-1963, college 1963-1967, and commissioned in Feb. 1968 at age 25.

My test when someone tells me they were a Marine in 'nam I just ask, "who did you serve with?" The answer will be something like 2/5, or HMM-161 and the person will not have to think about it. If they start giving you some long story about top secert missions, or cannot remember what unit they served with then my BS meter goes to MAX.

Flying WO

Gunner Barber flew H-34s for H&MS-36 out of Phu Bai in late '68, early 69 but since he joined up at Tun Tavern I doubt he trained at Ft. Rucker.

Wayne Stafford

As a DI from PI back in the 72-75 time frame, the highest rank out of boot camp was a L/Cpl (guarantee) and that was due to prior military service. As a gunner with HMH-463,70-71, most of our extracts were with the Army SF's. The last Marine WO pilot I saw was back at Det Mag-16 when I was with HML-267 at Camp Pendleton in the mid-late 70's. Sounds like this guy is jerking your chain.:rolleyes:

need help

HMM 163 had as I remember had a warrant officer as a pilot. I believe his name was Adamson ( I don't have my books aval. ) this was 1961 thru 1963.

Joe D'Arcangelo
HMM 163 61-63

Warrant Officer pilots

There were a couple Marine W.O. pilots that I know of, one personally...Gunner Poe!
Gunner Poe was a Korean veteran and possibly a former NAP enlisted pilot, flew Corsairs in Korea. Later a UH-34D HAC and a CH-46 HAC in New River with HMM-365 under (then Major) K.W. Andrus and later in RVN with, I believe, HMM-265. A great Marine and an even better pilot! Not many smoother than Gunner Poe, he taught many here, I'm sure! 🙂

Fort Rucker did train a few Marine Huey Pilots, along with their Army Warrant Officers, but never heard of any going to 53's from there, but it's certainly possible. NO WAY did he make E-5 from Boot Camp! Didn't happen, that's a crock!
We ALL flew recon missions as assigned, none assigned to "just" Recon stuff. Sounds like Army tactics and policies to me. Might have been in an Army unit of some type, but it's only a guess based on info you provided.

Suspected Wannabe

Not wanting to accuse anyone of being a phony, but this guy sure sounds suspicious.
It seems that it is now in fashion to be a Vietnam Veteran. Not like it was back in the 60's and early 70's.
I was with HMM-164 during Vietnam. No warrant pilots.
Spent time in US Army aviation as Platoon Sergeant in a National Guard flying company. We flew UH-1's.
All our pilots, except the CO and the Platoon Leaders, were warrant officers.

need help

I was a DI at PI 1964-65-66. I never saw or heard of anyone being promoted to any rank other than PFC upon graduation. That includes people with prior service in the other branches who had been Sgt's or PO's!
I served in a CH-53 squadron as Intel Chief. We had three CWO pilots in our unit in 1968 & 69. They were Gates, Gauthier & Basham. Excellent pilots all! We did fly several support insertion/extraction missions for Recon as well as Army Special Forces.
I also served two tours in Force Recon. We never had our "own" helos.

I think your guy is a wanna be!

Duke Dearing

Topsarge:
HMH 463 had 10 CH53A arrive in country on the IWO JIMA November 03, 1967, we had at least one pilot who was a graduate of the Army Helicopter pilot School the reason I remember is working out of the Parachute Loft they cough hell for making him name tags with the Naval Aviator Wings on it, he was not allowed to ware the Naval Aviator Wings, but had to ware some other type Wings don’t remember the type or his rank.
Reames O. Wooten
HMH 463 AMSE

wannabe

topsarge, I went to Parris Island Jun 64. After ITR at Camp Geiger went to flight school as a Marcad [ Marine Aviation Cadet] in Pensacola [ Mar 65 ]. Only Sgt [ E-5 ] connection is that was the pay rate we had as a cadet- no rank involved. The last Marcads graduated 66/67- the Program entry was stopped earlier. Joined HMM-263 in Viet Nam Nov 66. W O Bruce Alexander was in the squadron. We were working on our first log book- Bruce had 5 taped together and was rumored to have soloed in a Sopwith Camel. According to Bruce, at that time there were a dozen Winged Warrants left [ Henry Wildfang among them] and they were all Old Corps. 1969 I was with HMM-261 at New River and had one of the first Marines trained by the Army at Rucker check in. He was a 1st Lt and wore the Army wings. Had to finish an instrument program to get his Naval Aviator wings since the Army had no instrument training in their initial flight training. I'd have serious questions for him. Hope this helps. Semper Fi Joe Hanner [ aka Hostileman]

If a Marine went to Fort Rucker it had to be at least 2 months after May 1969 all Marines went to Hunter Army Air Field as of my graduation date May 20, 1969, and there were 8 classes behind us with Marines (see photo archive #3786 and #3787) also some Marines who were picked for AH-1 training stayed at Hunter since that is where the Army had their Cobra training.

One other myth is that there was no instrument training in Army flight school. The fact is we all got 50 hours of instrument training in actual flight, 25 hours of basic instruments in OH-13, and 25 hours of advance instruments in the UH-1 all ADF, and VOR work with a lot of PAR approches down to 200 feet and 1/2 mile. We also got 25 hours in the simulator. The total Army program was about 225 total hours all in helos. The only reason the Marine Corps sent us to Army flight school was because the Army could turn out a pilot in 34 weeks. The first time I had to shoot a TACAN in the bag at HML-267 it was a lot easier than a VOR approach. We had to get about 40 hours with a Marine squadron then they gave us Naval Aviator Wings, and a set of orders to 'nam.

topsarge:
The guys are mostly right as far as I can figure. I know the Iwo was in country from time to time up until '75 when I did a med cruise on her.

Lots of us got promoted to Sgt (E-5) the day after all hell broke loose (1st day @Quantico) for pay purposes and then O-1 if we lived thru it all.

As far as I remember, all OCS grads went to either USAF, USA, or USN as O-1 officer student pilots. MARCAD and some of the other programs were all done as quotas were being met as I mentioned. There were many "LDO's" that either reverted or got out when their LDO contract was up...all had to give up flying. I remember Ray Stetser telling me he was a flying NCO but then got an LDO deal, and then got killed.

Not sure when the first CH-53's got to SE Asia, but I was told it was a "Heavies" bird for a while as it did not go into hot zones until more younger, expendable pilots were trained and proficient in it...Something like 500 TT and a check ride.

As for flying warrants, we had a ball of crusty shtuff named Anderson in 463 in HI. He shows up in my #2 logbook @Early 78. I remember meeting with him in Yuma (he was a station pogue) in April '79. He retired soon after that I believe.

Pretty much all I know. Sure good to see what the other folks can remember. Gives me some hope.

Hooper

I was in HML 267 the same time that Allyn was and we had several army trained UHie pilots. None of them were W.O.'s. They trained with us until they got there Naval wings. In the 69-70 time frame we did have a W. O pilot can't remember his name, but he had been around a long time as Allyn said he was crusty and one darn good pilot!!

Gunner Barber - Phu Bai

Wayne Stafford;19174 wrote: Gunner Barber flew H-34s for H&MS-36 out of Phu Bai in late '68, early 69 but since he joined up at Tun Tavern I doubt he trained at Ft. Rucker.

Wayne Stafford

I remember Gunner Barber WO-4 (Miller was his first name if I remember right).
I was assigned to H&MS-36 in mid July 1968 and stayed there until I rotated to CONUS in late October 1968. I used to fly the H&MS UH-34's and can't ever remember the Gunner flying a 34 at any time. As I remember his sole job was to fly the C-117, Reaction 124, BuNo. 17124. The manufacturer's plate showed it came off the production line in March 1943. I looked for that plate when they "drafted" me to fly as his co-pilot a few times. I asked the Gunner a lot of questions about the C-117 and he was a fountain of knowledge. He regaled me with stories about how to Trans Pac one with removeable gas tanks in the passenger compartment and the connection to the main fuel tanks under the floor. He did mention that he TransPac'd C-47's during WWII. He also said that they pumped new engine oil from a drum in the passenger compartment into the tanks with a hand crank at timed intervals. I just can't remember if he said that he was ever an enlisted pilot. As to other WO USMC pilots, the ONLY ones I ever heard about were C-130 drivers.

"Crazy Joe" Scholle
HMM-363

Gunner Barber

Life would have been easier if the Gunner had only flown the C-117. We got into a pissing contest over the ASE altitude hold and I later almost speared him with a set of niddle nose while working on an H-34. I crewed with him a couple times on milk runs to Danang.

Wayne Stafford

We had three pilot WOs in VMO-6/5 at CamPen,'64-'67. Robert (Wimpy) Norton, Bruce Phillips, and Will Greenleese. If I remember right, these guys had been earlier passed over for Captain but were offered WO. They all had a good bit of flight time; Greenleese over 3000 hrs in helos at the time he got wiped out on Toro Peak; Norton, KIA in an OV-10; Phillips wound up flying F-4s and retired to PNS area. All three were given 2nd Lt status again when the USMC had a big push on to get and retain pilots after we got really involved in RVN.
Lanny

Gunner Barber did a tour in Nam with HMM 365 in H 34's in 1964/65 was a very good pilot flew many missions with him Paul Maynard