Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

Larry,

You probably already saw this.

SF, Jim

https://www.popasmoke.com/kia/incidents.php?incident_id=142&conflict_id=24

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

I am not clear on nor do I have any info on your query but it is possible the airframe crashed (hard landing, etc.) but was repairable within the guidelines of the NATOPs and not recordable as a class A/ B etc. If the airframe is still at KBay; this may be what happened. Just a guess.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

Update 6-13-11/ the bureau #157133 possible side no# YH-14 which is the one that crashed on 30 Oct 70 during the rescue mission of picking up locals. The a/c hit a submerged bunker and rolled over. Sgt McNeil, the crew chief, drowned. Can you old Dimmer pilots check your log books for any new info. I believe that this a/c was our first super "D" model in the squadron. Thanks and S/F

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

The below information came from the listing of serial numbers of Marine Corps CH-53's:

157133 (HMH-463) shot down by ground fire in Quang nam Province, South Vietnam Oct 30, 1970. 2 killed, 2 survived.

This is incorrect as this incident was the result of the a/c hitting the water and rolling over. Sgt McNeil was the only one the died in this crash. Someone out there correct me if I'm wrong about crashing due to ground fire.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

I went through the Naval Historical Center's listing of aircraft accidents ( http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/vietnam/ac-loss/mc-c-e.pdf) and found 6 incidents in October 1970, but none were on the 10th.

8 Oct 70 156663 was hit in flight by ground fire. Minor damage/no injuries.

28 Oct 70 156660 was hit in flight by ground fire. Minor damage/no injuries.

29 Oct 70 156666 was hit in flight by ground fire. Minor damage/no injuries.

30 Oct 70 157133 suffered substantial damage/2 fatalities. (I can't figure out some of the codes they use: Accident type: XH 83 Phase of operations: 36 36)

30 Oct 70 156665 was hit in flight by ground fire. Minor damage/no injuries.

31 Oct 70 156666 was hit in flight by ground fire. Minor damage/no injuries.

The 26 Oct loss of 156670 doesn't appear on the list, though Baugher has it.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

This is one long story and is a part of Mag 16 lore and legend for those of us who were there. I refer to the previous posts about late October 1970.

I reference the attachment and also pages 125-130 of "U.S. Marines in Vietnam Vietnamization and Redeployment 1970-1971" published by the History and Museums Division, U.S. Marine Corps, Washington DC 1986:

"The helicopter pilots and crews of MAG 16 especially distinguished themselves. Between 29 and 31 October [1970] they braved darkness and high winds driving rain and 500 foot cloud ceilings to fly 336 hours and 1,120 sorties on rescue missions."

The Group rescued over 11,000 persons - military and civilian - and delivered 56.3 tons of food, clothing and medical supplies to thousands more.

Wing G3 along with MAG 16 insisted it was too dangerous. Further we would be hauling not only the good guys but VC. General McCutchen (my personal hero) is quoted as saying, "As of now the war is over. Let's get on with it."

And so we did. Many of us got shot up had to hitch a ride home. As I recall, the CH53 in question attempted a water landing for a rescue. It picked up water and could not lift. I am sure someone of this site can provide more .

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

The aircraft involved was indeed CH-53D BuNo 157133. It had been recieved by HMH-463 from HMH-462 on the 5th of October 1970. At the time of the incident it had only 84 hours on it. It was up and flying again after repairs by the 9th of January 1971, the repair work being carried out at unit level at not at a major rework facility.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

SIDSKIO, Just wondering how you obtained the date of repairs. I recall the a/c being repaired at H&MS-16 with a civilian team that I recall being called a "STRAD TEAM".

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

The information I work on is taken from the aircraft's history card, which details changes in units, employment, status etc. Hopefully, I have attached a copy of 157133's for that time frame. In the 7th column, just after the model there is a list of codes and this is the aircrafts status code at that reporting time. A10 is combat, EAJ is awaiting rework, non flyable, obviously as a result of the accident on the 10th of October. The code HC0 is used on the 9th of November 1970 is "Awaiting Rework Repair". On the 10th of November the status chages to G30 which is "Repair in work". It aslo seems to have logged an hours flight on that date, if you look at the 14th column. Its code then changes back to A10 on the 9th of January, which is fit for combat.

The work may have been carried out at H&MS-16, but as you can see, the aircraft remained on charge to HMH-463. In more severe damage cases, the aircraft was usualy signed over to the repairing unit.

Sid

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

Sid, thanks for the update. The attachment came out to small to really get a good read. I'll see if I can enlarge it. HMH-362 is planning on some kind of a dedication for Sgt. McNeil as the a/c is due for retirement in the near future.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

I remember flying into the same LZ the day of the crash. The aircraft was lying on it's side in the water. We heard the crewchief was killed. It took place at a ROK OP south of DaNang during some serious monsoon flooding.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

This crash that killed Sergeant Bruce McNeil is a nightmare that’s behind me after about 42 years. I know that because I can talk about it. Sergeant McNeil was my first close friend who was killed. Other squadron members had died but his death really hit me because I knew him.

The LZ was flooded due to the rains. I had been to the same ROC base and recall the bunkers that were about 10 feet high. I think that they were picking up people from the roof of the bunkers and pilling them in. Before I learned about the crash I saw (still see) on officer walking on the flight light line without his cover. I can see Lt Spottswood walking in his wet flight suite and wet hair. He is upset and out of place. How odd I say to myself. He died years later in a civilian helicopter crash.

Re: Looking for info about a HMH-463 CH-53 crash on 10 Oct 1970

Jim, Long story but I almost lost my legs in that zone. seeing that 53 on it's side, and knowing the Crew Chief was killed has been one of my nightmares for all these years. Thanks for putting a name to Bruce.

JD