Rockpile

Joe,

I am almost positive that Dave Althoff has some pictures of one of our Phrogs on a re-supply mission, hovering with only the aft struts touching the makeshift pad on top of the Rockpile.

Try him at: hlthcare@dancris.com

photo

Thanks Jake for the heads up. I have emailed Dave and am waiting for his response.
Semper Fi
Joe

Joe:

I think Gary Zimmerman has a picture of an H-46 with the rear wheels on the LZ and the nose out in space. Hiis email address is gzimm283 @aol.com. I'm pretty sure there is a similar picture in Visions but I was unable to locate it, I'll keep trying.

It was definately done. I saw it done at the rockpile and I'm sure there are plenty of guys out there who did it.

SF

Joe:
Photo 2260 is a frog doing a 2 wheeler. Rockpile photo would be more impressive but 2260 gets the idea across.
I think Mike Leahy also has a painting of a 46 "backing in"
Bob

"Backing in"

Thanks to all! Still can't find #2260, but I'm not through tryin'!
Semper Fi
Joe

I found it!

Put the number in the correct place and it works every time!
Thanks again to all!!
Semper Fi
Joe

https://www.popasmoke.com/visions/image.php?source=2260

Fully Articulated Argument

Sounds like that old Army Sgt (must have been at least 30) from a Chinook squadron passing through Phu Bai who was absolutely convinced a CH-53 couldn't do a barrel roll. Go figure.

Wayne Stafford

I recall making a re-supply to an Army outpost in Laos (Mission 72) called LZ Sugarloaf, where we could only put one rear strut of our CH-53 on the LZ as the troops/supplies were off loaded. Wish I had a picture of that for those in question.

Sounds familiar

Many of those LZ's, or more correctly, landing platforms were designed for UH-34's and their side opening cargo/troop doors. When we came along and had to resupply these same areas in our CH-46's after the 34's left, we just had to improvise, overcome, adapt! (hear that in a movie lately??) We got the ammo and supplies in and the medevacs out one way or the other. Made for exciting times until we figured out it was just business as usual. After that it wasn't any big deal anymore. pictures are still impressive though!!
Semper Fi
Joe

Follow up on the landing....

Picked this up from another forum.

"This attached shot was taken by a trooper in Afghanistan. Pilot is Larry Murphy, PA National Guard. Larry is a Keystone Helicopter Corp.EMS Pilot employee called to active duty. I must state that this is a "unique" landing operation. I understand that this particular military operation was to round up suspects.

We have some super reservists and National Guard folks out there in addition
to our volunteer troops. God bless them all." Joe Reid

I fired back with pic #2260 and explained that Marines have been doing that for over 30 years now, along with Joe Reed's comments at the bottom of this thread.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

When things were that tight, in the Hueys, we would "nose in", most of the time, drop off our load and do a half assed 180 aileron roll getting out.
Lanny

HMM-262 doing a "Wheely"

I think this is omething like you trying to find.

That's it!

Thanks Jake! I've got this one and a couple of others now. However, I still haven't found the one I saw a few years back that shows a CH-46 with a starboard main strut on solid ground and the port strut either off of the ground altogether or "barely" on the ground. I really appreciate the efforts of all that sent me the pictures. If that "special" one turns up, I'd love to have it.
Thanks again!
Semper Fi
Joe

Rear Ramp Only

I was on an emergency recon extract once using only the ramp while hovering. Do any of you pilots remember doing those things? I remember the ramp was pretty bent up and raggedy looking.

Jake didn't you tell me about a mission like that? I know it was a hairy one and you might not like to talk about it, so don't feel you have to.

Hovering Backwards

Yes, hovering backwards for a pickup was up close and very personal to me, and to 1st Recon Bn. "Team Antifreeze"....

11 APR 67
CH46A - BU# 152565 (ET-38)
HAC: Capt. Vic Vecchitto
Co-Pilot: Capt. JD "Whip" Alexander
Crew Chief: L/Cpl Jake Jacobs
Gunner: S/Sgt. P.T. Anderson

The team had heatstroke casulties, Victor Charlie was somewhere in the area and they could not make it to the Primary extract LZ. In order to get them out, with the aft ramp down, we had to hover backwards until flush with an outcropping of boulders, on the side of a ridgeline which sloped down at 45 degrees.

We had three immediate problems:

1) The wind was buffeting us up, down and around , so we were concerned about slamming the ramp into the boulders.
2) Everytime we dropped altitude, the blades came way too close to the ridgeline and boulders.
3) We were a big, fat, green target that even a blind man could hit without any effort.

One by one, Team Antifreeze climbed onto the boulder and jumped across, onto the ramp. There were two Recon KIA that day, both hit by the blade tips, as they came running down the ridge:

PFC Barry Broerman
PFC John Hawley

One of them died in my arms. It's not a day I will likely forget.

Rear Ramp

I had a C.O. that landed mine on a stump that didn't make it look too good. We fixed an M-60 to it a time or two, but we weren't allowed to fly with it down. It seems John Dulligan, our Boeing Vertol Tech Rep. had appoplexy or similar when he heard of such antics aboard CH-46A's. He was usually right so I didn't fool with stuff he said not to fool with, except hover aft when we need to get in an LZ in a hurry.....another story...
Thanks for saving our butts, John!
Semper Fi
Joe

I recall a recovery mission in 69, where the only way to get the team in, was to place the ramp on the top of the mountain. It was a really small area, just a few yards of space. The crew that took us out did an outstanding job. Crew Chief was on the ramp guiding the bird back when he noticed a stump that would have damaged the aircraft and the pilot reacted immediately. Good thing that stump was there, because I was the next thing to get landed on and was able to grab it before falling. Don't recall the crew, but it was from HMM263 and would have been probably the first part of April.

To Roth

It was emphasised to me by people I respected that whenever you modified an airplane (or Charlie modified it for you) on the next flight you were acting as an experimental test pilot. That said, many decisions in combat are 'least worst' rather than best. In fact they are often instinct (or informed intuition) and it is amazing how often the result was positive. Maybe flying 100+ hours a month had something to do with it and I guess if you got it wrong you aren't here to boast about it. Anyway, if it works, it ain't stupid.

As for Hover Aft, I understood exactly where the guys stood on that one. I'd have done the same thing if I had needed to. Terry Curtis once told me that engaging Hover Aft at the right point in a Buttonhook approach was like throwing out a huge anchor.

What was amusing was the reaction of the guys in Engineering when I was debriefed on my return to the World. They believed that putting a line in the Natops Manual telling pilots not to engage hover aft above 70 knots would prevent them from doing it. I laughed in their faces and told them to make the airplane strong enough to do it, it's too useful a manoevre. "Well", they said, "we're putting in an interlock. That'll stop that". I didn't say anything but I knew that the guys would find a way to beat that. And they did.

To Joe Reed

It was emphasised to me by people I respected that whenever you modified an airplane (or Charlie modifed it for you) on the next flight you were acting as an experimental test pilot. That said, many decisions in combat are 'least worst' rather than best. In fact they are often instinct (or informed intuition) and it is amazing how often the result was positive. Maybe flying 100+ hours a month had something to do with it and I guess if you got it wrong you aren't here to boast about it. Anyway, if it works, it ain't stupid

As for Hover Aft, I understood exactly where the guys stood on that one. I'd have done the same thing if I had needed to. Terry Curtis once told me that engaging Hover Aft at the right point in a Buttonhook approach was like throwing out a huge anchor.

What was amusing was the reaction of the guys in Engineering when I was debriefed on my return to the World. They believed that putting a line in the Natops Manual telling pilots not to engage hover aft above 70 knots would prevent them from doing it. I laughed in their faces and told them to make the airplane strong enough to do it, it's too useful a manoevre. "Well", they said, "we're putting in an interlock. That'll stop that". I didn't say anything but I knew that the guys would find a way to beat that. And they did.

Chinook Picture

Our own Mike Leahywas commisioned by John Van Nortwick to paint a picture of a mission he flew in 1969 which shows a 46 with the main landing gear on the ground.

http://www.thehootch.com/aircrewatwork.htm

Photo ROCKPILE_2 ?

The photo is titled ROCKPILE_2

If the photo is yours or you know who it belongs to, please advise us so we can give them credit and get it up on our visions photo section.

Rockpile LZ

Although not the exact shot Gorge, this is the zone we've been looking for. I got this shot from Walt Jones a few weeks ago. This is a great example of a UH-34 LZ that us CH-46 guys had to "learn to live with". SOMEWHERE there is a shot, ...'cause I've seen it, of this LZ taken from behind the A/C showing just how precarious it can be in certain wind conditions. There is only ONLY WHEEL one the ground and about 3/4 of the ramp touching. We had to load/unload that way more than once with our Alpha models and as I remember, it was winds giving us fits on those days. Others days it was like the above picture, just back it up like you were parking your car.
Thanks for that one, it's the "right string" just the "wrong yo-yo".
Semper Fi
Joe

Bragging Rights

Another interesting topic and I'm posting this because of the references to our beloved and faithful 34's.

The references to 'platforms' and landing areas being constructed for 34's, at least to me is way off base. I cannot remember landing (if you would call it that) in these areas where it was not difficult for everyone. And I do not remember a platform large enough to acommodate even a 34. On most occassions our pilots had to set one strut down with either the other hanging out there in the air or with the tail section hanging in space. In fact, my aircraft was heavly damaged just aft of the radio section when the aircraft with the help of mother nature suddenly moved forward and down and impacted on the edge of a platform. Now that was a fun ride...the pilot just rolled off and we headed toward the ground. I though the aft section of the aircraft was going to break off at any second...but, with the 34 being the tough old bird it was we made it back to PhuBai...

I just felt compelled to put in a good word for our 34's and brag about the pilots that flew them...always liked it when they got us back to the hootch.....

Gordo