Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?-message

Paul, I hope you got my message. It says it all. Have a cool one for me, if you care for them, and have a Great Day. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

pm3777;32393 wrote: I wish to thank those that took time to afirm that I might be a Marine !!! I would feel my six would be secure with you Marines !!! I wonder how many here would feel if another member laid those words on you ??? I can tell you it is hard to remain Civil!!! As for the one that did that I remember you well & wont forget !!! Nuff said !!! Semper Fidelis PM

Paul.,I sure am glad that Joe straightened this mystery out for me. I was going thru all the past feed in this thread trying to buy a clue. LOL
I'm in complete agreement with you & you certainly have my total support & gratitude for your contributions & efforts.
One insufferable ass's comments do not warrant the stress caused by brooding over their actions. Your six is well covered by the membership.
Hand Salute to you.,Marine.
Craze

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

mecollins;32429 wrote: Paul.,I sure am glad that Joe straightened this mystery out for me. I was going thru all the past feed in this thread trying to buy a clue. LOL
I'm in complete agreement with you & you certainly have my total support & gratitude for your contributions & efforts.
One insufferable ass's comments do not warrant the stress caused by brooding over their actions. Your six is well covered by the membership.
Hand Salute to you.,Marine.
Craze

Paul--I agree with Mike, I also tried to buy a Vowel, but couldn't find any--assumed it was the one deleted by Slick. Don't worry Buddy, your 6, is. covered!! Appreciate what you do for PAS, theres always one malcontent whom likes to stir up trouble--usually because his so-called life is miserable.
Shake it off and consider the source..

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

What does this post have to do with the origional subject Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Tom Knowles

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Tom Knowles;32468 wrote: What does this post have to do with the origional subject Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Tom Knowles

Irrelevent post moved

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

I think it warrants an investigation!

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Tom Knowles;32468 wrote: What does this post have to do with the origional subject Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Tom Knowles

Tom: This was a test to see if you was paying attention !! Time for a shot of good single malt scotch-you passed LOL
Drippy

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

After some discussion on this site regarding this legendary Marine Aviator I have had several long enjoyable conversations regarding our mutual past in the Corp . He came in the Corp August 1942 as a Naval Cadet & I came in 6 April 1942 at Boot Camp PI. He said as part of his training than was with Air Lines , American Air Lines in New York During WW2. Much of the training was done with Civilian contracts under the Title "War Training Service". I have a certificate "War Training Service" from my NAP courrse which was at TCU in Fort Worth Texas . We flew each day from a dirt field outside Fort Worth which was from an Aviation Co at Meecham Field. He said the Airfields at that time in New York were camaflaged & had the old WW 1 type barrage balloons around them. Those balloons were also at the beach at PI in 1942 when I was in Boot Camp. Later in 1943 he was at Edenton Aux Field Near Cherry Pt . At that time I was at Cherry Pt which was still under construction. He said he was given his final check ride before graduation in a PBY. He was in the A/C behind another student that was starting his check out flight. That one was in the take off run when he released the seat which was on tracks. It slid all the way back & that pulled the yoke full up !! The instructor Pilot desperately shoved his yoke with his foot to recover the full up control & the A/C fell hard back into the water. He said there was water sperting up in small geysers in the bottom of the fusealage !! He was assigned to VMDR 154 a Photographic Squadron flying the B24 four engine Bomber. He was flying out of Henderson field at Guadcannal. He had missions over Bouganville which he had to fly at 1000 ft. That was a big target for the Japanese Zeros !! I joined VMTB 232 as it was leaving Bouganville. The B24 had all manual rods & cable control linkage with no Hydraulic assist !! The controls were heavy. He said he liked flying the A/C but it had a rapid sink rate when commited to landing. He told about firing a burst of 20 mm at the hulk of an old Japanese ship off Henderson field when he returned from a mission. He said there was couple guys in a small row boat near there & they took off so fast didn't look like the oars touched the water !!! He was at Espritu Santos, New Hebrides Island in 1944 same time I was there in the TBM Sqd 232. One of his Co Pilots was the LtCol Ullman that I had a run in with at El Toro MAG 25 in 1954. In my assignment. Ullman ended up under investigation after I requested a transfer because of his neglect in duties & misuse of goverment equipment & marines working on his house etc.He was retired as a Major. Henry & I were both in MWSG 37 there at El Toro . He was a MSGt E 7 flying the R4Q. Our CO was an old NAP from the early 1930ies Col C. C. Campbell. I was only there a short time when I was assigned to the first Sgt Major Class at PI.. He said he would liked to have flew helicopters but was afraid he could than never get back in fixed wing flying which he loved. Henry will be 95 14 May. He said he owed his longivity to his Mom that lived to be 110 !!! What a fine old Gentleman & Marine SF PM (Will try & attach the "War Training Service Later" Have a hard time with this stuff !!!

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Paul, was the LtCol Ullman perhaps a CO of VMJ-1 in Korea circa 1952?
Thanks and Semper Fi
Bill Weaver

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

I am not sure. This was 1954 shortly after most had returned from Korea. He was the S 4 Officer MAG-25 when we had the problem I mentioned. He was out of the Office most all the time & Priorty messages piled up I tried to get him to get things up to date & he ignored everything & continued. I asked for a tranfer since I wanted no part of that type operation. He proceeded to write me an unsat fitness report. Of course I wrote a letter to it as I was permitted.Because of the letter they investigated him with the results that he was forced to retire as a Major. Wish it could have been otherwise !! SF Paul

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

"War Training Certificate " My NAP Course . This was the training Henry Widfang was in during the Airline phase of training. I also had 3 months at Louisana State college at Nacatoches which I dont have a copy of. SF PM

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Paul,
This may prove interesting...there is a T.A. Stinson that signed your training certificate below. Could that be one in the same from the Stinson light aircraft a few years later??? Somehow the initials seem correct, although I don't recall reading anything or seeing a document to make me believe that......:confused:

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Joe, could very well be , I didnt know of him after the course. Some of those Instructers were from the TCU Staff while others were from the Aircraft Co that had our trainers. My Flight instructer was a Navy Lt M. E. McFarland. He was a real pro & a fine man. The course was divided between the TCU staff & the Aircraft Co. Those were really pleasant Memories. Surrounded by Co Eds very few male student because of the war. Than being solo at 19 years old buzzing the Texas landscape !!! SF PM

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Paul,
Those HAD to be good times!!! Wish I could have joined you there! Love flying the "stick" planes!! The Co-Eds were just a bonus!!
I'll check on the Stinson deal and advise asap.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Guess it wasn't "THE" Stinson, Paul....

The Stinson Aircraft Company was founded in Dayton, Ohio, in 1920 by aviator Edward “Eddie” Stinson, brother to Katherine Stinson. After five years of business ventures, Stinson made Detroit, Michigan the focus for his future flying endeavors. Stinson found Detroit's business community receptive to his plans. A group of local businessmen — the Detroit Board of Commerce's Aviation Committee — supported Stinson's plans to establish the Stinson Aircraft Syndicate in 1925 at a site southwest of Detroit, where today's Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County Airport is located, and provided $25,000 to develop a new monoplane; the SM-1 Detroiter made its first flight on January 25, 1926, and became an overnight success that enabled Stinson to quickly assemble $150,000 in public capital to incorporate the Stinson Aircraft Corporation on May 4, 1926. Always an aviator at heart, Eddie Stinson was still flying as a stunt pilot, earning $100,000 a year for his efforts — a huge sum in those days. Stinson Aircraft Corporation sold 10 SM-1 Detroiters in 1926. Business was steadily increasing, and Stinson delivered 121 aircraft in 1929.

Automobile mogul Errett Lobban (E.L.) Cord acquired 60 percent of Stinson's stock in September 1929, and his Cord Corporation provided additional investment capital to permit Stinson to sell its aircraft at a competitive price while still pursuing new designs. At the height of the Depression in 1930, Stinson offered six aircraft models, ranging from the four-seat Junior to the Stinson 6000 trimotor airliner.

Eddie Stinson did not live to enjoy the success of his company. He died in an air crash in Chicago, Illinois on January 26, 1932, while on a sales trip. At the time of his death at age 38, Stinson had acquired more than 16,000 hours of flight time — more than any other pilot at the time.

The Stinson name did not last much past the end of World War II. Eddie Stinson's death accelerated the assimilation of Stinson Aircraft Corporation into larger corporate entities: first by Cord Corporation, then by Aviation Corporation (AVCO), and later by Consolidated Vultee. By 1950 the Stinson company was sold to the Piper Aircraft Corporation, which continued to produce 108s for a limited time. Piper transformed an original Stinson design (the "Twin Stinson") into the successful Piper Apache, the world's first general aviation all-metal twin engine modern aircraft.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Maybe some of his relatives in the later generation . SF

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Yes the Marine Corps had WO pilots, at least when I was there in 67-68. In fact we had 3 in VMO-2 at that time. However, these WO's were all older guys and some had been reverted back to WO from a regular officer rank. I do not know or believe of flying WO of the age you mentioned. You had to go through flight school as a MARCAD or already a LT. The MARCADS became LT's when they got their wings. Now the army had tons of them 21 years old and even younger. In 68 there were only a handful of flying enlisted pilots, one MSGYSGT Bob Lurie was there at that time and was a friend of mine. I believe he told me they were all E-9's with many years in grade.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Great news !! Was he a WO ?? Camels were low altitude vehicles ,smile.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Gunner Poe was flying 46s in 73-74 in Okinawa. I believe his crash was o approach to Futema in 1973. He survived but was burned pretty bad. I was Flight Line with H&MS-36 when I met him during a test flight to accept a bird from his squadron. That flight was in June of 74. We thought he was the last WO pilot in the Corps at that time.

QUOTE=pm3777;31734]WO Poe was still flying CH46s at Okinawa in the 1970 ies when I was there. He crashed in one there but I dont recall which year it was. SF PM

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

I don't understand all this fuss about flying WO's. In 1953 in HMR 163 we had Gunner Bartuck, real old f--t then (we thought) WO Reeve who later was forced to revert to
2nd LT which PO'd him to no end and two or three enlisted pilots. The WO's I knew had been around the block a few times. Nuf said about these guys. They were ichi bon.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

When I was with HMH 462 in 64 we had a Gunnery Sgt who was a pilot there used to be quite a few of them around the Corps

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Flying Chevrons F4U Korean war (All Tsgt & Msgt E-7 ) . These were NAP s on a jeep carrier of Korea. There were many back in those days. Far as I can find all of these "Flying Chevrons" are deceased Many of them were later comissioned & retired as Officers. My favorite Friend & Hero was an NAP Sgt Graduated 1937 & is in the following post .>>> Subj: Wake Island NAP (Wish someone would compile the History of the NAPs which goes back To WW 1). The Class I started in was partly Navy & Marines until we started Primary than they were Marine classes .

Default
Wake Island, 1941( My Friend & Hero Bill Hamilton. Graduate NAP 1937 as
a Sgt) Would like to see a history written on NAP Enlisted Pilots !!!)

A tiny atoll in the central Pacific Ocean, Wake Island
was annexed by the United States in 1899. Located between Midway and
Guam, the island was not permanently settled until 1935 when Pam
American Airways built a town and hotel to service their trans-Pacific
China Clipper flights. Consisting of three small islets, Wake, Peale,
and Wilkes, Wake Island was to the north of the Japanese-held Marshall
Islands and east of Guam. As tensions with Japan rose in the late 1930s,
the US Navy began efforts to fortify the island. Work on an airfield and
defensive positions began in January 1941.

While work progressed, the 400 men of the 1st Marine
Defense Battalion arrived on August 19, led by Major James P.S.
Devereux. On November 28, Commander Winfield S. Cunningham arrived to
assume overall command of the forces on the island. By early December
the airfield was operational, though not complete. The island's radar
equipment remained at Pearl Harbor and protective revetments had not
been built to protect aircraft from aerial attack. On December 4, twelve
F4F Wildcats from VMF-211 arrived on the island after being carried
south by USS Enterprise.
The Battle of Wake Island:

Due to the island's strategic location, the Japanese
made provisions to attack and seize Wake as part of their opening moves
against the United States. On December 8, as Japanese aircraft were
attacking Pearl Harbor (Wake Island is on the other side of the
International Date Line), 36 Mitsubishi G3M medium bombers departed the
Marshall Islands for Wake Island. Alerted to the Pearl Harbor attack at
6:50 AM and lacking radar, Cunningham ordered four Wildcats to begin
patrolling the skies around the island. Flying in poor visibility, the
pilots failed to spot the inbound Japanese bombers.

Striking the island, the Japanese managed to destroy
eight of VMF-211's Wildcats on ground as well as inflicted damage on the
airfield and Pam Am facilities. Among the casualties were 23 killed and
11 wounded from VMF-211 including many of the squadron's mechanics.
Retiring with no losses, the Japanese aircraft returned the next day.
This raid was less successful and VMF-211's four remaining fighters
succeeded in downing two Japanese planes. As the air battle raged, Rear
Admiral Sadamichi Kajioka departed Roi in the Marshall Islands with a
small invasion fleet on December 9.

Arriving off Wake Island on December 11, Kajioka ordered
his ships forward to land 450 Special Naval Landing Force troops. Under
the guidance of Devereux, Marine gunners held their fire until the
Japanese were within range of Wake's coastal defense guns. Opening fire,
his gunners succeeded in sinking the destroyer Hayate and badly damaging
Kajioka's flagship, the light cruiser Yubari. Under heavy fire, Kajioka
elected to withdraw out of range. Counterattacking, VMF-211's four
remaining aircraft succeeded in sinking the destroyer Kisaragi when a
bomb landed in the ship's depth charge racks.

While the Japanese regrouped, Cunningham and Devereux
were called for aid from Hawaii. Stymied in his attempts to take the
island, Kajioka remained nearby and directed additional air raids
against the defenses. In addition, he was reinforced by additional
ships, including the carriers Soryu and Hiryu which were diverted south
from the retiring Pearl Harbor attack force. While Kajioka planned his
next move, Vice Admiral William S. Pye, the Acting Commander-in-Chief of
the US Pacific Fleet, directed Rear Admiral Frank J. Fletcher to take a
relief force to Wake.

Centered on the carrier USS Saratoga, Fletcher's force
carried additional troops and aircraft for the beleaguered garrison.
Moving slowly, the relief force was recalled by Pye on December 22 after
he learned that two Japanese carriers were operating in the area. That
same day, VMF-211 lost two aircraft. On December 23, with the carrier
providing air cover, Kajioka again moved forward. Following a
preliminary bombardment, the Japanese landed on the island. Though
Patrol Boat No. 32 and Patrol Boat No. 33 were lost in the fighting, by
dawn over 1,000 men had come ashore.
Aftermath of the Battle of Wake Island:

Pushed out of the southern arm of the island, American
forces mounted a tenacious defense despite being outnumbered two-to-one.
Fighting through the morning, Cunningham and Devereux were forced to
surrender the island that afternoon. During their fifteen-day defense,
the garrison at Wake Island sank four Japanese warships and severely
damaged a fifth. In addition, as many as 21 Japanese aircraft were
downed along with a total of around 820 killed and approximately 300
wounded. American losses numbered 12 aircraft, 119 killed, and 50
wounded.

Of those who surrendered, 368 were Marines, 60 US Navy,
5 US Army, and 1,104 civilian contractors. As the Japanese occupied
Wake, the majority of the prisoners were transported from the island,
though 98 were kept as forced laborers. While American forces never
attempted to re-capture the island during the war, a submarine blockade
was imposed which starved the defenders. On October 5, 1943, aircraft
from USS Yorktown struck the island. Fearing an imminent invasion, the
garrison commander, Rear Admiral Shigematsu Sakaibara, ordered the
execution of the remaining prisoners.

This was carried out on the northern end of the island
on October 7, though one prisoner escaped and carved 98 US PW 5-10-43 on
a large rock near the killed POWs' mass grave. This prisoner was
subsequently re-captured and personally executed by Sakaibara. The
island was re-occupied by American forces on September 4, 1945, shortly
after the war's end. Sakaibara was later convicted of war crimes for his
actions on Wake Island and hung on June 18, 1947.

Default F4F & My
Friend Bill Hamilton NAP

Wake Island was a big motivation for me. I had
to wait until Feb 1942 before I could enlist at 17 years old. I served
with several Marines that were POWs from Wake Island. My favorite was
Bill Hamilton an enlisted pilot. Bill graduated as a Sgt enlisted pilot
(NAP) in 1937. He came to Wake Island on 4 Dec 1941 with the F4F A/C
mentioned in the above article. He was than a Tsgt Pilot & had
additional assignment as the Manintence Chief for VMF 211. He did an
outstanding job in both of his assignments . After his capture he was a
POW for 4 years in the Japanese coal mines. He retired a Capt & was on
assignment with me while on Advisor duty in Vietnam 1967. He related some of the events of his career while we enjoyed few cool adult beverages in Vietnam . Bill passed
several years ago but he will always be in my memory bank !!! SF
Gy///Msgt Moore wing Imput .

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

We had, i remember well, Gunner Poe a W/O in HMM 261 in 1966/67 in New River, then I saw him doing checks in Oki in November of '67 when we took our birds there to get the aft pylons glued on around sta 410. {The hover aft problem} He did my Check Ride and then [ it is an old secret??? He let me [taught me] to take off, land and piddle around in a hover before shutting down. Gunner Poe's job was to try and shake all the loose rivits in the plane out and tear off any lose parts. He really did a great job on our test hops. It was better than an 'E' ticket at Disneyland.

E-Ticket??? How old does that make me?

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Chuck,
It wasn't a secret. Gunner Poe was one of the best, as stated earlier here gave me my first ride in a UH-34D when in HMM-365 at New River, prior t heading to your CH-46 outfit. He was in HMM-365 in RVN I believe. He flew F4Us in Korea.

Re: 21 year old warrant officer pilot?

Joe,

Well I sure thought it was pretty special that he unexpectedly taught me how to take off, hover and land without a drivers license. In the states we were only supposed to crank up the APP for power, In country we could start the engines. In Okinawa, I actually was thrilled when he said, "You got it!" He was gentle with me, very patient but when he was flying a check ride, it was all strap yourself in and then Katie hold the door. It would be only Gunner Poe and the Crew Chief in the ride. I thought that was how it was supposed to be because if you didn't 'wing your own nuts', why risk anyone else's Huevos Ranchero's?

I was sorry to hear that he went down and got burned years later.

That man was a pilots pilot.