Can Mike or anyone else explain the horizontal stabilizers (diagonal stabilizers?) go with which type. Some had what Mike drew, some had smaller, still others none at all.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

Stabilizer

Was my understanding that the Horizonal stabilizer was mainly to help stabilize in forward flight velocity. The HO5S now in the Kit Plane market had moved the stabilizer up some forward along the tail fuselage with small vertical fins on each end. The newer Sikorsky Helicopters (Blackhawks) Have a horizonal stabilizer that is controlable like on some fixed wing A/C. It is also in the AFCS control system. SF PM

I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

Korean Helos

PM3777, our own Paul Moore, was a Line Chief in Korea, I'd bank on him getting it right. He remembers EVERYTHING in vivid detail! Let's see what he says about this.:cool:

Horizontal Stabilizers

To PM3777

As I remember my helicopter aerodynamics from HT-8, the horizontal stabilizer in the H-34 was put there to keep the nose from pitching too far down in forward flight. If you look at the stabilizers on an H-34 you will notice that they look like an upside down wing. The curved portion is on the bottom, the flat side is up. In forward flight the A/C attitude is slightly nose down. This causes the stabilizers to "lift" DOWN, just the reverse of a regular wing which lifts UP. The result is that the A/C maintains the designed nose down attitude in forward flight. The fact that the H-34 stabilizers are in a "fixed" position means that they do not operate at the greatest efficiency at all speeds. The Blackhawk stabilizers are moveable to allow the greatest efficiency at all forward speeds.

"Crazy Joe"
HMM-363

Nose down? Stabalize?

Joe the concept you discribe would fit the fixed stabilizer. . An airfoil with velocity of air over it would exert force as you discribe it regardless of which way the ventura half was faceing. Of course some have equal face surfaces & than depending on the angle of attack would than determine where the lift was exerted. On some new main blades coming out from Sikorsky the tip droop & back slant is mainly to deal with blade tip air burble which resulted in excessive drag. I agree the HO3S has been overlooked in the initial Korean action. A friend of mine was shot down and landed his F4U in the rice paddies. The violent bump on the dikes resulted in bad back damage to him. His wingman flew around as long as his fuel permitted. He than sat against the dike awaiting possible rescue. As darkness approached an HO3S helicopter appeared & with the aid of his zippo lighter landed & picked him up. The pilot was an Navy NAP Petty Officer First Class. They flew out toward the carrier with the radios out & in the darkness. When he arrived at where he plotted the carrier to be he circled and finally the carrier turned on the lights. Hope to see that Major at the April HMX-1 Reunion. (As usual the name? forgot hope I will recognize him)

Ryan;17863 wrote: Can Mike or anyone else explain the horizontal stabilizers (diagonal stabilizers?) go with which type. Some had what Mike drew, some had smaller, still others none at all.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

4frank;19304 wrote: I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

I've viewed the sketch several times and each time I see the HO3S-1 in it (2nd from the bottom). 🙂

Here is the page out of the album I was thinking of. Not very helpful I guess because it doesn't even list all of the HRS versions. This is out of an Air Force H-19B manual. AFAIK The H-19A, B, and C do not correspond to HRS-1, 2, and 3. IIRC the HRS-1 was a CH-19E.

HRS's

SuperCobra;21848 wrote: Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

Wow, talked about something I haven't thought about in a long time. Looking around I found this.

Gary D on HKN had this to say - "HRS-1 were originally built without the inverted V shaped stabilator. Early in the HRS-2 production the inverted stab was added and was eventually refitted to all Marine HRS variants."

I was getting at the stab differences on the HRS-1's of HS-10 and XM-3 and HRS-2's of HT-16 and HN-2

wow its really worth appreciable and i like to see that.
you have post here good helicopter picas and i keen to seat in.
when my dream come true man.
have a good time.

That is very nice of you... i like the pics ....

Helo's in Korea

I think that one has been left out. I was with VMO-6 in '51 and '52 and we had some HOK-1's. It is not represented on your list. :confused:

VMO-6 Korea 1951/1952

You must be confusing the dates or the VMO Unit number. They had HO3S (Sikorsky) HTL-3 & -4 (Bell). Than replaced by HO5S-1 (Sikorsky) by 1953.. SF PM

HOK-1s didn't enter service until 1956.

I have the first HOK-1's being accepted by the Marines in 1953.
Have a look at
http://www.h43-huskie.info/framesetmarines.htm

I was in HMR161 in Korea both at Ascom City and Munsan ne. Saw VMO 6 helos alot . They had Htl's from Bell and H05S's. Never saw a HOK I agree with PM He should know!!

Argue with PM or Walt?? Not me!

Never saw a HOK I agree with PM He should know!!

Yes he should and he does!! If Paul Moore or Walt Jones tell ya' something happened a certain day or a certain way, put it in the bank!!

HMX had Hok's when I was there in 1960 , they where in the same hanger as the HR2S 's ,me I was scared to get close to a HOK ,one day TSgt Dugas if I would take a hop with him I refused his offer a few days later that bird crashed killing everone. I think 3 crashed while I was there, I was glad to see the UH1E take their place. SF

No HOK flight for Walt!

Walt,
That very well might've saved your life! Good news for us that hadn't had the pleasure of meeting you yet!

SIDSIKO;27264 wrote: I have the first HOK-1's being accepted by the Marines in 1953.
Have a look at
http://www.h43-huskie.info/framesetmarines.htm

Thanks for the link. It appears that page contradicts itself though. Later on it says 1956 and all of the other data on that site supports that:

The HOK-1 was flown at the NATC at Patuxent River as early as March 1955, before it was placed in service with Fleet Marine Force units. These were so called BIS-trials. Marine Corps line pilots were assigned to put the machines through the various flight regimes that would be required for field performance after delivery to the Fleet Marine Corps units. Information from these flights was also used to determine serviceability and maintenance requirements. The BIS trials were begun only after factory flight testing had been completed. In about March 1955, an HOK-1 disintegrated in flight over the Chesapeake Bay, killing the pilot. The BIS trials were suspended until the accident investigation was completed. In September 1955, the BIS tests were resumed with five Marine Corps pilots participating. On about Sept 23, 1955, another HOK-1 crashed in the woods a few miles north of Patuxent River. The pilot was killed. The BIS tests were again suspended until the accident investigation was completed. The first deliveries to the Marine Corps began in 1956.

Helos in Korea

Gentlemen, I'm just glad by the time I started flying, the 46 was in service. Especially that the tail falling off, had been re-designed and fixed. Guess the 46 was a result of the HUP-2. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.