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Topic starter
Hello,
I’m putting this under Vietnam aircraft because there is no generic aircraft forum. Plus I figured most of the knowledgeable salts hang out here.
Thought I would compile a list of every helicopter T/M/S the Marines have ever flew/owned/borrowed (no matter how few the numbers) and throw it out for comments, corrections, additions, and WTFs. I guess the distinction I’m trying to make by “flew/owned/borrowed” is that I would include the UH-1B and AH-1G loaned by the Army as Marine helos but not the Navy TH-57s that we use in flight school or the Hiller Hornet or Llama that had Marines painted on the side because they tried to sell them to us – but I’m open to all suggestions. I haven’t seen a comprehensive list yet – if you know of one somewhere let me know. Some of these are off the top of my head, some are from various references, and some are from posts on these boards. I’m going to put everything up and we can whittle or add from there. As it changes I’ll keep consolidating and updating the list. Feel free to comment and add as much as you want. I would be very happy if this eventually grew into a list of total numbers, major differences from other series, what units flew them, date of first flight, date placed in service, last flight, location of flying/museum examples, official and unofficial nicknames, etc – I have some of this info already and will post it for QA as this evolves. Would like to post a picture of each one in Marine markings (think I have a picture of everyone but a CH-46F, UH-1B, and RH-53 but most of these were culled from the internet and I might not be able to credit the source).
I hope this will generate some good discussions like “we never had those” or “we only had one of those” or “the only difference between an H and an L model was the number of tongue depressors in the first aid kit.” That is the type of info that I’m looking for.
I’d like to keep this somewhat factual, so if you throw out something really obscure please try to quote a source, or character reference. OK – cleared hot. Please drop anything you want and I’ll adjust fire from there.
Thanks,
Randy Smith
Marine Helicopters – 1932- 20??
1. OP-1 Pitcairn Autogyro (OK not a helo but close) – borrowed a couple for testing but I think it makes the cut because we used it in combat.
2. HO3S-1 Sirkosky “DragonFly?”
3. HRP/HRP-1 Piasecki
4. HRS-1 Sikorsky “Chickasaw”
5. HRS-2 Sikorsky “Chickasaw”
6. HRS-3 Sikorsky “Chickasaw”
7. HTL-3 Bell
8. HTL-4 Bell
9. HUP (1&2) Piasecki “Retriever?” “Mule?”
10. HO5S Sikorsky
11. HOK-1 (OH-43D) Kaman “Huskie?”
12. HR2S Sikorsky “Mojave”
13. UH-34D (HUS) Sikorsky “Chotaw” “Dawg”
14. HUS-1Z (VH-34) Sikorsky “Marine One”
15. UH-2A? Kaman “SeaSprite?)
16. AH-1G Bell “Cobra”
17. AH-1J Bell “SeaCobra”
18. AH-1T Bell “SeaCobra”
19. AH-1W Bell “SuperCobra”
20. AH-1Z Bell “Viper”
21. UH-1B Bell “Huey”
22. UH-1E Bell “Huey”
23. UH-1N Bell “Huey”
24. HH-1N Bell “Huey”
25. VH-1N Bell “Marine One”
26. UH-1Y “Venom”
27. VH-3 Sikorsky “Marine One”
28. VH-60 Sikorsky ever “Marine One” or just support?
29. CH-46A Boeing “SeaKnight” “Phrog”
30. CH-46E Boeing “SeaKnight” “Phrog”
31. CH-46F Boeing “SeaKnight” “Phrog”
32. CH-53A Sikorsky “SeaStallion”
33. CH-53D Sikorsky “SeaStallion”
34. RH-53D Sikorsky “SeaStallion”
35. CH-53E Sikorsky “SuperStallion” “Shitter”
36. MV-22 Bell/Boeing “Osprey”
Posted : 2005-04-14 03:42
Posted : 2005-04-14 07:30
"D" Model Phrogs
I don't see any "D" model Phrogs on your list. I thought it went from "A" to "D" to "F" and then back to"E"? Am I wrong on this?
Semper Fi
LZ
Posted : 2005-04-14 07:31
Just a side note, ALL the CH-53's had the nickname of "Shitter" not just the "E" models. If I remember correctly the only Marine Squadron to operate the RH-53D were the Marine Reserves at NAS Alameda.(might be wrong though) They were part of MAG-26 during Desert Storm, also have pictures of the RH-53D during Desert Storm. I was in HML-767, the MAG-26 Huey Squadron for Desert Storm. Let me know if you need anymore information, I would be glad to help out.
Garfield411
CH-53D and UH-1N
Crewchief
Garfield411
UH-1N and CH-53D
Crewchief
Posted : 2005-04-14 09:51
Randy,
I have a photo from Skip that shows a MH-53 in Marine markings.
Semper Fi,
Ryan
Posted : 2005-04-14 12:56
Found a list of USMC aircraft (current through 1965) here:
Posted : 2005-04-14 13:59
The Kaman UH-2B Seasprite was operated as the S.A.R. bird at Cherry Point and Beaufort from 1965 to about 1970. I've pictures if you want them.
Posted : 2005-04-14 17:58
Phrog Alphabet
A, D, Super D, F, E
Posted : 2005-04-14 22:05
Super Snake
I did not see a HH1K, Ch46D, RH53A?? also SAR at Beaufort flew HH46A's i think
top A
Posted : 2005-04-14 23:03
When I was at HMX (12/69-07/73) we also had the SH-3A, VH-1D, and SH-3G. The VH-3A was "Marine One."
Lanny
Posted : 2005-04-15 00:04
CH-46's
Larry Zok,
You are correct, sir. They went from CH-46F and then back to "E". I've heard reasons for this, but none sounds plausible to me.
Randy,
The CH-46 index on this site has a few "F" model photos. YP-20 from HMM-163 is one that was taken in Santa Ana before conversion to "E" model. Those photos shows th correct "F" as purchased in 1969/70. The "D models are also represented in the photo index. All "D" models are "Super D's" after a certain Bu.No. It is probably listed here, somewhere. The early "D's" are all but identical in appearance to the "A" model whereas the "Super D" has an extended aft pylon that is easy to spot, once you figure out the difference.
Good luck!
Semper Fi
Joe
Posted : 2005-04-15 08:02
Super D's
Joe -
You're rapidly becoming the "go to'' guy on all questions pertaining to the 46!
HMM-364 also operated the Super D when it returned to SEA -
There's a good pic #1335 in the 46 photo section showing the aft pylon difference.
S/F
Tom
Posted : 2005-04-15 17:51
Nicknames
Here's a few:
HRP-1, -2 "Flying Banana"
HO5S-1 "Flying Tinkertoy"
HOK (OH-43)/HUK (UH-43) "Huskie" (official name)
HR2S (CH-37C) "Deuce"
HUS (UH/VH-34D) "Seahorse" (official name)
UH-2B "Seasprite" (official name)
VH-3A,D "Sea King" (official name)
VH-60A "Black Hawk" (official name)
AH-1G "HueyCobra"
- all Cobras are "Snakes"
"Dragonfly" was British name for HR.5 (HO3S)
"Choctaw" was Army name for H-34s
Posted : 2005-04-15 18:31
D to F and back to E
Boeing was constantly working on different projects, many of which never went into production. For instance I worked on a project that had complete 'fly by wire' flight controls. No mechanical controls, just electrical cable, just like the F-16. It saved at least 600lbs in wieght and was really responsive to fly. But it never went into production.
Changes can be made 'on the fly', especially where safety of flight is concerned ( a good example is the original "droop snoot" blades, sorry boss I meant to say "high lift"). Usually they are saved up and are incorporated when there is a major change made, usually more powerful engines. If the change is really significant and anybody who flew the A and then the D will know what I mean, a new designation was given.
Several designations could exist at the same time and although giving a specified list of items a letter designation implied that it was slated for production, it didn't always happen. Where are the B and C models. They were incorporated into the D.
I'm speculating but I know the E and F existed side by side but the F was ready first, for whatever reason. So it was produced first. The E came along later and instead of calling it G and having to change all the paperwork (no global change back then) I suspect it was decided to stay with E.
John
Posted : 2005-04-16 13:12
CH-46 stuff
Tom,
Thanks for the kind words. I remember HMM-364 bringing their new and pretty CH-46 "Super D's" to Phu Bai when they arrived in country in 1967. Some of the guys teased them at the mess hall, but the truth is we were all jealous. After many months and untold hours flying and maintaining our trusty "A" models, we should have all been so lucky as to fly new "Super D's".
Semper Fi
Joe
Posted : 2005-04-17 19:23
Topic starter
Thanks!!
All,
Thanks for your help. This is exactly the type of info I was looking for. I'll at this to my list and expand it to include other designations, offical and natural nickname, production numbers, etc., an d post it here again for scrutiny.
George,
Thanks – I been to Joe Baugher’s serial number site before. One of the things I’ll try to add to my list will be the BuNos. May be hard because some of the BuNos listed as USMC might have went to other US services or foreign services right off the bat. I’ve really enjoyed the aircraft data you have posted here. One of my hobbies is collecting old flight manuals. When I get some scanned in I’ll post some info from those.
Larry, Wayne, Joe, John,
You are correct on the CH-46D. Major blunder on my part. I’ll add it – sorry Phrog guys. I’ll also eventually get all the aircraft in the correct order or at least list “in service” dates.
Garfield,
Thanks for the info on the “Shitters” and the RH-53Ds. I’ve scrubbed internet and even the MAG-26 historical files and can’t find any good pictures of Marine RH-53Ds. Would love to use your pictures if you have them digitally: smithrd@acemnf-wiraq.usmc.mil
Ryan,
I’ve got the MH-53E. Wasn’t going to go that route originally as that was the combined training squadron and thought it would be the same as the Bell TH-57s at Milton with “Marines: on the side. However, the Marines did operate it so I’ll include it and other oddballs as well to make this list comprehensive and unique.
Tom,
Thanks for the nickname info and the for the link to the USMC Aircraft History site. I didn’t know that one existed. Also, I have been to your pages many times and use the tailcode and squadron info quite often for identifying photos but had quite frankly forgot that you listed the aircraft. If you don’t mind I’d like to follow through with this project and make it as complete as I can and then if you’d like to it over to you for posting on your pages.
Norm,
Thanks for the UH-1B info. Do you know how many we had or any of the bunos?
I love to use the pictures: smithrd@acemnf-wiraq.usmc.mil
I saw a postcard of one in Marine marking on eBay but missed the bidding.
TopA,
I didn’t know about the HH-1K – thanks for the lead – I found more info on the net I’ll incoroporate. I’m trying to verify if we had RH-53As and RH-53Ds or just As. Various sources on the net say there were just 15 RH-53As built and imply they were all Navy. HH-46As?
Lanny,
SH-3A, VH-1D, and SH-3G – I didn’t know about those at HMX - three new leads to follow up on. Just started looking for the references on the Marine VH-1D and coming up with a blank except for one reference that said the Army Executive Flight Detachment and HMX-1 flew them between 1970 and 1973. I’ll keep looking for more info on all three.
Thanks,
Randy
Posted : 2005-04-18 09:15
Anytime Randy
FYI, CH53A's were flown at HMH-777/MARTD Dallas late 7x's till they disbanned in mid 90' and akso by Alameda's reserves and Willow Grove's reserve HMH, I think all were converted CH53's for endsweep.
Jim
top A
Posted : 2005-04-18 22:40
Bureau Numbers
Randy,
Don't get confused. The Bureau number, by definition, is a Naval Aviation indentifier, I believe. The bureau numbers listed are "just" Navy/Marine aircraft. Foreign services/governments would not be included in those numbers, only Navy/Marine Corps units, meaning mostly Marine units since the Navy had relatively few CH-46's in comparison. The other service (Air Force/Army/Coast Guard/Nat'l Guard) did not call them "bureau" numbers, I don't believe, and as you can see by looking at any of their aircraft, the numbering system is considerably different than Naval Aviation bunos and not related in any way.
Hope this helps and didn't confuse the issue.
Semper Fi
Joe
Posted : 2005-04-19 06:54
Topic starter
Now I have to go back and refresh my memory but I think BuNos (vice serials or some other method of numbering) were issued and used for the AH-1Ws sold to Turkey and Taiwan. I could very well be wrong and maybe this was just an isolated case.
Randy
Posted : 2005-04-19 09:05
Pictures
Randy,
I will have to scan them and get them into a digital format, you can use the pic's I have. Also have some of the old "J" model Cobra pic's from Desert Storm also. Glad I could help.
Chris Breaux "Garfield411"
UH-1N and CH-53D
Crewchief
(HMH-362,HMM-261,HML-767)
Garfield411
UH-1N and CH-53D
Crewchief
Posted : 2005-04-20 07:39
Foreign AH-1W BuNos
AH-1Ws bought by Taiwan and Turkey were assigned Bureau Numbers because they were ordered by the Navy for the foreign buyers under the Foreign Military Sales program.
Turkey: 165037-043
USN/USMC BuNos 164196-??????
There are only 7 listed, but I've seen references to Turkey having 9.
Taiwan: 164913-938, 165334-341, 165370-377, 165545-565.
Taiwan AH-1Ws
I've got a list af AH-1G/J/T BuNos I'll post. I'll have to go through Baugher's list for the AH-1Ws.
Posted : 2005-04-20 14:12
Randy,
VMX-22 currently operates the MV-22B.
Semper Fi,
Ryan
Posted : 2005-04-20 21:33
Cobra BuNos
As promised:
USMC Cobra Bureau Numbers
AH-1G
157204-157241
-- Army serial numbers retained
AH-1J
157757-157805
159210-159229
-- 159229 was converted to AH-1T
AH-1T
160105-160119
160742-160748
160797-160826
161015-161022
-- Surviving Ts were converted to AH-1W
AH-1W
162532-162553
162554-162575
163921-163954 163921,922,923,925,928 to Turkey.
164572-164578
164586-164596
165037-165056 165037/165043 FMS to Turkey
165097
165271/165292
165317/165341 165334/165341 FMS to Taiwan as 527/534
165358/165377 165370/165377 FMS to Taiwan as 535/542
165392/165396
165445/165450
165545/165565
AH-1Z
166477-166479
166477 converted from 162549
166478 converted from 163933
166479 converted from 162532
Posted : 2005-04-21 01:47
Topic starter
Bunos
Thanks Tom,
I haven't done a lot of research into this yet but it looks like H-34s to Germany and the Netherlands and AH-1Js to Iran were also assigned NAVAIR bunos. Probably a lot of other examples as well.
The list you posted on AH-1s is great. 159228 also went from an AH-1J (never made it off the J produciton line I don't think) to an AH-1T, to an AH-1W. That is the kind of info I want to consolidate and build on. Also maybe a list of which bunos were historically significant or saw combat. Imagine that was most AH-1Gs, Phrogs, etc. Which ones are now gate guards, museum pieces, etc.
Probably in this forum somewhere but did all 38 AH-1Gs go to Vietnam?
I've only seen one AH-1G on a stick in UMSC clors - that was at NAS Atlanta years ago - don't know if it is still there. There is the now AH-1S or F in pseudo Marine colors down in Florida referred to in another post. Probably a few more former USMC AH-1Gs dressed as AH-1Ss or Fs around.
I have a list buried somewhere of the bunos for the four AH-1Js that went to Vietnam for the trials with 367 and the bunos of the (7?) 369 MARHUK birds.
AH-1Js I know of in various locations:
157757 - first J - was a hulk in the Yuma CFR pit (mid 1990s) - gone now.
157764 - MARHUK bird - static display at MCAS Camp Pendleton - As of 1996
157771 - Prairie Aviation Museum, Bloomington IL.
157773 - At Pensacola NAM? Buno painted on side is 070280
157784 - Flying Leatherneck Museum - MCAS Mirimar, at MCAS El Toro Museum prior to that
159210 - Patriots Point Museum, Mt Pleasant, SC
159211 - Air Zoo, Kalamazoo, MI?
159212 - In restoration hangar of Quantico Air Ground Museum
159216 - Carolinas Aviation Museum
159218 - USS Interpid Museum, NY NY
159227 - NAS Pax River Museum - last USMC AH-1J built (159228 and 159229 turned into Ts while still on production line) - Actual last J built could have been Iranian or Korean (haven't checked that yet).
AH-1Ts - Joe Baugher lists "160815 (c/n 29129) noted recently at English Field Air & Space Museum, Tradewind AP, Amarillo, TX" - I thought all AH-1Ts were modded into Ws. Would really like confirmation on this and if anyone knows of any others. I have a list somewhere of which AH-1Ts served in Grenada that I'll add to this list eventually.
AH-1Ws - Probably will never see one in a museum. I'd was going to say the same about Phrogs but I think a Navy Phrog already went to P'Cola and now we have Mike Claussen's aircraft at Museum of Carolinas. Anyone know why the HQMC museum didn't keep it - I thought they had big plans for it?
Semper Fi,
Randy
Posted : 2005-04-22 07:28
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