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Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

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  • Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

    I am looking for a Marine Pilots Military grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 789055 in I-Corps. I'm trying to match the photos to a map.

    Anyone having an old military L-7014 Series 1:50,000 scale map of the area containing the above coordinates, I would dearly love to have it scanned and pinpointed.

    If I am correct, it these were the coordinates of a Recon Insertion and later extraction that occurred on Jan 19, 1968 carried out by HMM-164 and a two plane launch with cover later by VMO 3.

    I have aerial photos of the mission and our last of three approaches to the zone to recover the beleaguered team. I’d just like to match the photos to a map location.

    Anyone got a huss for an old pfhart?

    Semper Fi.

    _Chuck
    Attached Files
    Last edited by cnowotny; 12-16-2011, 18:24. Reason: Growing older and more careless? Does that work?
    Semper Fidelis

    Charle'

  • #2
    Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

    may help

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/vietnam/
    Slick

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 789055

      Thanks!

      Unfortunately this series of maps is way far to the South. I'd need sheets in the 6400 series which aren't posted. Somewhere in-between Ashau and Khe Sahn as I recall. Then I'd need a pilots overlay to identify the LZ. of YD 789-055.

      All of our missions used the A-Z alpha numeric grid coordinates. Again, unfortunately we as Crew Chiefs usually had no idea where we were going or where we were after we got there. Some places grew to be familiar but when inserting a recon team, it could be anywhere and usually was. Hmmm I just noticed that I posted the wrong grid anyway.

      The correct grid is YD 789055 and that is way up there in the left hand corner of S.Vietnam somewhere as I recall. The high 700s was always in the Khe Sahn area. Dong Ha was in around the 106's Then there was the XD grids which were always hot. But time fades memory. I need a map!

      Some one should have retained a map with the A-Z grids on them.


      At least that is my hope.
      Semper Fidelis

      Charle'

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

        Due you mean YD789055? Got that location from VMO-3 Jan68 CC.

        See Sheet 6541-IV Hue. You can download that map from the Texas Tech website.

        1st Recon Bn had an insert scheduled at that location on 19Jan68, but apparently it was postponed due to weather and then the location was changed. Actual insert took place days later. See their Jan68 CC. 3rd Recon Bn had already moved to Quang Tri by then.

        The location is SSW of Hue on the eastern edge of the foothills.

        This is another case of "not enough documents/information available" to properly research the question.

        Semper fi

        Wayne Sutter
        Fighting Mad 1 - 4 Actual, Out

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

          I seem to be having a [hissy] fit trying to find that particular link at Texas Tech site . Also I’m not having luck with 1st Recons AA reports either.

          I was fishing for an After Action report from whom ever RECON it was that was at 3rd Mar Div. at Phu Bai in January '68.

          The date , 19 Jan, ’68 is clear in my mind. So are the missions but there is no documentation from HMM 164 to prove that it really wasn't Rod Serling hiding behind a CONEX box telling some audience that I was having a psychotic episode in the "Twilight Zone".

          I know that there was a flight of two Marine HUEYs at the end of our last of many missions that day. I know that VMO 3 was at Phu Bai and I presume they gave us the support. I have the photo's of the mission and note that it could have beem in the foothills too but I recall the hills being a bit taller but time does wondrous things to memory.

          I've tried to identify some of the Marines in the photos of that mission but have always had some doubts as to some of leads I've come up with the last few decades.

          It isn't the mission, it isn't the identity of Marines in the photo's. It is what happened two days later because of that particular Jan 19th mission with Tim Timmons.


          Notwithstanding the amazing and outdamstanding flying acumen of then Major Bob Nelson all day long, notwithstanding the series of photo's taken when time permitted I snapped that day. Notwithstanding all of that, it was the astounding and profound effect on my affect that a simple sermon given by Tim Timmons a day and a half latrer, the following Sunday. That is the prize I seek and validation that I want to document. Mr. Timmons and I talked about my little catharsis after forty plus years just a few months ago, finally. He recalled the sermon and the circumstances as to how he came to give it. Yet, now I am just disappointed that I haven’t been able to find theofficial records to bolster my memory and my photo’s for some unknown reason. I hate leaving facts to chance and wanted to bolster and refresh the time line or else like everything else, things all gets muddled into one unrecognizable jumbled up pile of electric synapses arcing and shorting out with old age. Bummer!


          If you have the inclination and time, I'd appreciate if you could fwd the links to Cnowotny@msn.com. There is an answer somewhere and I don't think Rod Serling is it.

          Semper Fidelis

          _Chuck
          Attached Files
          Last edited by cnowotny; 12-16-2011, 20:02. Reason: Redundancy Accrues!
          Semper Fidelis

          Charle'

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

            http://www.virtualarchive.vietnam.tt...s/maps_new.web

            This is the link to the Texas Tech map database. Just search for map number "6541-4".

            Where did you get the coords YD 789055 from?

            From mid Jan 68 thru mid March, we were in the middle of the monsoon season. Plus, Khe Sanh area was heating up. Recons west of the Rockpile were becoming suicide missions. A recon insert at your coords in mid Jan was on the main highway from Ashau to Hue. By then, all the traffic in that valley was one way. Remember, we were only 11 days before Tet.

            Perhaps your insert was a SOG mission? 1st Recon Bn/1st Force were definitely Phu Bai residents in Jan68.

            And, do not be concerned about flawed memories. We all suffer from it. Myself included. I wish the documentation was better preserved and/or presented to help us refresh our memories.

            Gray hair is caused by brain cells leaking out of the skull.

            Semper fi

            Wayne Sutter
            Fighting Mad 1 - 4 Actual, Out

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

              Wayne,

              Das ist absolut wundervolles! Ausgeseichnet! Out damn standing!!! Thank you for your assistance. Grrrrrrrrreat!!!

              I found that map, easy as pie... Well once you get the hang of it. However it is in very low resolution so I did some work on it. From the looks of it, it could be and should be the place where the emergency extraction took place. The close proximity to the river is one happy feature.

              Now if you could find that After action report for the recon unit you described earlier. I checked VMO-3's AA reports and found them missing also however in their Command Chronology on Jan 19, it says they were involved in an emergency extraction. NFD.

              I put the photos of the final approach on the third try to pull the team after getting shot out twice before on this posting. Also Im putting photos of the team being dropped off at their home after we off loaded the wounded. The photo of the young Officer is, I believe their liaison as I met him just prior to launch earlier that morning at 3rd Mar Div. I don't believe he went with us on the insertion. He should be the easiest to identify. Also I believe my old eyes have been able to mark on the map where the coordinates I am looking for are. It is very, very close and the river is there also. Its looking better and better. Now if you could assist me in finding any AA reports for Jan 19 for recon in that area.

              In the meantime, I'll keep on searching.

              Semper Fidelis

              _Chuck
              Attached Files
              Semper Fidelis

              Charle'

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                A few more shots of that mission. Prior to insertion and exiting, post extraction.
                Attached Files
                Semper Fidelis

                Charle'

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                  Colonel,

                  I finally figured how to navigate through the Tex Tech web site. Thanks again for your help.

                  I see that VMO-3 was on four armed escort missions in support of an Emergency Extraction at the coordinates I had asked about on Jan 19th. [789-055]] Unfortunately again there are no after actions reports chronicling the mission other than the Command synopsis. That is why Id love to find the pilots and their flight logs if still available.



                  I hope which ever Recon unit it was did better and used black ink. So many of our AA's were done in; would you believe, pencil???

                  Aside:

                  In the photo's on our third and final approach, there is a ceiling but it isn't unnavigable for VFR. On the ground it was clear as a bell photographically speaking. Even the shot of the team leaving to debrief after the extraction, the sky is relatively clear with just a slight hint of cloudiness. It definitely wasn't raining that day.
                  Attached Files
                  Semper Fidelis

                  Charle'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                    Wayne,

                    I was able to find a small entry in the VMO-3 Command Chronology alluding to Jan. 19, 1968 where they flew in support of an emergency extraction at YD 879055.

                    I then found a map with your assistance; at the Texas Tech site that had those grids.

                    I next matched up the topography features of the map to my aerial photo's taken Jan 19th, 1968 as we orbited north of the zone after being shot out of it twice before.

                    The photo shows the Hueys from VMO-3 pounding the L.Z and the enemy positions in the valley. I recall VMO-3 was complaining that they too were receiving heavy ground counter fire which was just a little unusual and meant the NVA werent being intimidated by the rockets and 7.62 being delivered on top of them. It also heralded things to come as it was the prelude to the attacks at Khe Sahn and the 1968 Tet Offensive at Hue . I also checked more contemporary satellite photos more of that area and verified them with my almost 43 year old photos. Everything matched to a T. Sand bars, creeks, ridges, Mama San taking a nature break on the river bank and everything matched.

                    I want to thank you for your assistance in finally putting some documentation to my photos and my story. Old Rod Serling of Twilight Zone Fame. can now go jump headlong into the Sng Ta Trach river. (The Left or Southern Tributary of the Perfume River.) I've oft stated how hes been bugging me, telling me that this was all a big fig bar of my imagination for far too many years.

                    It took some doing and a lot of perseverance but tenacity has always served me well with the help of a few kindly other industrious folks with good intentions.
                    A very Merry Christmas to all!

                    Semper Fidelis

                    _Chuck Nowotny
                    Attached Files
                    Semper Fidelis

                    Charle'

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                      Glad I could help.

                      You discovered an important secret, maybe it should be on wikileaks.

                      The gooks were never intimidated by anything we dropped on them. Just some days they stood their ground and fought like hell.

                      Remember we dropped more HE on that little country then we dropped on the whole planet in WW2, and the gooks still won the war.

                      Have a very Merry Christmas.

                      Semper fi

                      Wayne Sutter
                      Fighting Mad 1 - 4 Actual, Out

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                        The problem was the yahoos in DC made us drop all that HE in the same spot.
                        Please don't say the googs won.
                        How can you loose when you aren't there any more

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                          I finally have all of the information needed to put together an account of what I use to thing happened on Jan 19,th, 1968 but as time has shown, it was January 25, 1968 beginning with an early morning two bird launch led by Major Robert Nelson involving the recon Team Quizmaster among others. The reason for my specific interest was to put names to faces of the Marines who I had occasion to fly with on that day. One of the more haunting reasons was that when we dropped off the Quizmaster recon team of the 1 Battalion Force Recon (Rein) 4th platoon Co. “C” into YD789045, one particular Marine Recon team member was caught on camera looking at me as I took the photograph of the team deploying into the elephant grass. Unknown to everyone in the team an aboard my shop was that we had chosen a insertion point that was smack dab in the midst of at least a battalion of PAVN troops staged and set while en-route to Hue to participate in the coming Tet ’68 offensive. It was only about three hours later we returned to that same zone to pull the beleaguered team from that same valley, almost the same spot in an emergency extraction as they had almost immediately been completely enveloped and surrounded by hundreds of PAVN soldiers who were intent on destroying them completely. We had inserted t he team into what became a “Hells Half Acre” and we, their brother Marines were their only hope to survive that battle in the hope of seeing another day.

                          I’ve identified, after nigh on 44 years of inquiries, posts, false leads and frustrations personified the identity and the recorded details of that team and of the young 19 year old Recon Marine Pfc. Roger Minett Lay of Milford Ohio who later died of his wounds on the deck of my helicopter, YT-6.

                          It wasn’t immediately apparent at the time of the incident or even years later how this incident would come to haunt me and cause me to press onward with what seemed to be an impossible trail of disappointments and disenchantment with the lack of After Action reports and records of that period and especially of that day.

                          I was able to find small references to that mission in HMM 164’s Command Chronology, the Command Chronology of VMO-3, the After Action Command Reports filed by Lt. Phelps , who had also been wounded and was the team leader of Quizmaster as well as a personal account from his perspective of Cpl Bob Rininger, also wounded who was the radio operator on Quizmaster that morning.

                          My objective has almost been met as I still have the objective of contacting Pfc. Lays surviving father in Milford and offering him should he want to relive the non-graphic pictorial facts of his lost son’s last mission as well as the photos of the team and his son’s actions that day.

                          I don’t know if this is a morbid idea or not, but being the father of four sons, I think that I would appreciate and cherish such an account and photographic depiction if it existed and if all I had was a telegram or a well intentioned letter from the Corps advising of my sons loss. Especially if the existence of such photos and personal remembrances shedding a little light on the circumstance of my loved ones death in such a conflict as was ours, in such a far away strange land as was our war in Vietnam.

                          Time is the final arbiter of all things and I don’t think that time will make an allowance for me to continue another twenty or forty plus years so as to finally reach my stated objective and goal.
                          Last edited by cnowotny; 12-30-2011, 14:22. Reason: If at first you don't succeed, PUNT!
                          Semper Fidelis

                          Charle'

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                            Good on ya' Charlie. Glad you were able to close the curtain, so to speak, on that one....
                            Semper Fidelis
                            Joe


                            Phu Bai tower:
                            YW-11 for Phu Bai DASC-
                            Remember, These are "A" models!
                            YW-11 BuNo-151939
                            '65 Model CH-46A

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Looking for a grid map to find the coordinates and location of YD 78905

                              Chuck, I was the Crew Chief of one of the VM0-3 Gunships that day. What is more amazing, i took a super 8 video of a lot of the action that day. I also sent a detailed letter of the video so that my brother would understand the video. I have attached the letter home to this email. You will see it matches your description of events, even names the team "quizmaster". I had all of my video's converted to digital, and will post this particular day's events to utube later this week. The letter home is 5 pages, so each page is an attahment due to size. One small world isn't it.
                              Attached Files

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