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Question for the "22' supporters

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  • Question for the "22' supporters

    What a/c in the Marine Corps inventory will take the place of the 46 in the following situations.

    1: Emergency Medevac when the casualties can't be transported to a secure area for p/u by the 22?

    2: If we get involved in jungle warfare or anywhere else that wheeled or tracked vehicles can't be used, who will resupply troops in need of food and/or ammo, medevac etc.

    3: If the 22 will be used in an emergency, how will they protect themselves if they have to hover or sit in a hot zone while loading or unloading troops, cargo, medevacs etc.

    5: As I understand it, because of cost, the "22" is not to be used in these situations. How much is a marine's life worth.

    6: The C 130 seems to be able to accomplish most of what the 22 can do. No verticle t"o or landing but can do short field t/o and landings and can haul a bunch more than the "22".

    I understand the 46 needs to be replaced. What I don't understand is why our Marine Corps has put all of its eggs in what I deem to be a boondoggle of epic proportions. Even the Army decided the helicopter was better than this. Hell the Air Force, I'm sure loves it because they love expensive toys.

    IMO our marine Corps would be much better of keeping more helicopter squadrons albeit with new, better helicopters.

    Keep a few squadrons of the "22" to save face and do what they're capable of.

    I see this boondoggle as a danger to our marines in the field, not because of their flight record, but because of what they Can't do for our marines in the field. I hat it that we'll end up depending on the Army to handle our life and death issues. I remember going into zones in Viet Nam that Army medevac a/c deemed to dangerous. I don't remember our pilots in HMM 161, 68/69, refusing to try in life and death situations.

  • #2
    Re: Question for the "22' supporters

    Gee
    I think we have Hueys.
    They are twice as big as the Nam era models and have 10 times the power.
    Problem sloved

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Question for the "22' supporters

      johnnyr46, we die, don't get the re-supply, and have to walk out of the place. I do not believe the huey CAN, even though its bigger?, and 10 times more power?. If thats the case they can stop building 22 squadrons, scrap them at 90 million and more apiece, all the 46's in storage, and boneyard, and make the Marine Corps Aviation all hueys. You are very correct in the army not having the Guts to come into a really bad zone, and save a Marine. They won't even do it for themselves, much less, and especially for we Marines. Notice the people against the 46 seem to be huey and others. The 46 is another 52, wether anyone believes it or not. Oh, thats right, its to old. Well the 52 has an indefinate life, but the most needed one the 46 must be done away with. I'll laugh the day they really need them, and don't have a one. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Question for the "22' supporters

        No one is against the 46.
        It's a great Bird and it should be updated and continue to serve.
        BUT
        They are not fast enough and don't have the range for the new requirements of the Corps.
        The question was, what can do medivacs due to the 46 retiring? Answer is the HUEY.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Question for the "22' supporters

          Originally posted by John Ace Hunt View Post
          johnnyr46, we die, don't get the re-supply, and have to walk out of the place. I do not believe the huey CAN, even though its bigger?, and 10 times more power?. If thats the case they can stop building 22 squadrons, scrap them at 90 million and more apiece, all the 46's in storage, and boneyard, and make the Marine Corps Aviation all hueys. You are very correct in the army not having the Guts to come into a really bad zone, and save a Marine. They won't even do it for themselves, much less, and especially for we Marines. Notice the people against the 46 seem to be huey and others. The 46 is another 52, wether anyone believes it or not. Oh, thats right, its to old. Well the 52 has an indefinate life, but the most needed one the 46 must be done away with. I'll laugh the day they really need them, and don't have a one. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.
          Seems to me that there are still 53's operational & I beleive the army 47 is still in production. I'm not knocking the 46, but either the 53 or 47 could fill heavy lift to tight zone void. The Huey (my bird) did fine for MedEva, recon, plus all lite utility missions. A few Sq's of 22's would fill a nice nitch for longrange fast transport missions like Sparrow Hawk etc. Only thing I disagree with is depending to much on any 1 bird...

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Why do we have the V-22

            ANSWER;

            POLITICS AND NOTHING ELSE


            S/F

            ed

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Question for the "22' supporters

              I'm not knocking the 46, but either the 53 or 47 could fill heavy lift to tight zone void. The Huey (my bird) did fine for MedEva, recon, plus all lite utility missions. A few Sq's of 22's would fill a nice nitch for longrange fast transport missions like Sparrow Hawk etc. Only thing I disagree with is depending to much on any 1 bird...
              Our Corps will STILL have the CH-53 and the UH-1 in several variations. The MV-22 is filling a void that we can't otherwise fill. We aren't landing at Hill 881, An Hoa or in the Ashau Valley's surrounding LZs under fire any longer. If we DO get to that we'll use the '53 or 4 bladed Huey. Really...we'll be okay with this bird. It is ALREADY safer and at least as productive our our beloved Phrogs were in 1967. (apples to apples here folks)

              The question was, what can do medivacs due to the 46 retiring? Answer is the HUEY.
              Only if very close in...The far away locales like those in Iraq and Afghanistan require the 280+ knot speed of the MV-22. It ain't like it was only 5 clicks to Charlie Med, etc. like we had at RVN....
              Last edited by Joe Reed; 12-28-2010, 14:47.
              Semper Fidelis
              Joe


              Phu Bai tower:
              YW-11 for Phu Bai DASC-
              Remember, These are "A" models!
              YW-11 BuNo-151939
              '65 Model CH-46A

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                I doubt there is really a Bird in Marine inventory that can and will do what the 46 can and does now. It has to be proved to me. Its certainly not the 90 million dollar job. They held the 53's out of Hot zones as they cost to much to be lost one time, and they will do it again. The 4 blade huey, well certainly doesn't have more fuel than a 46, and the lift capacity of the 46, but there are a lot of them. I will laugh when they have to have the Phrog, and there are not any. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_UH-1Y_Venom
                  Check out the credentials.
                  My old E model HUEY had 1100SHP (540 system) 204's had 900SHP
                  This thing has TWO 1500SHP engines.
                  I can't even thing of what we could have done with that much power.

                  I believe the A model 46 had twin T-58's rated at about 1250SHP ea

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                    I, as a UH-1Y crewchief, think that our a/c is very capable of taking over a majority of the Phrogs missions. Granted the yankee doesnt have the kind of airspeed the 46 has nor the lifting power, it is able too and IS carying out the majority of 46 roles in theatre. Both huey squadrons that were recently deployed to Afghanistan have claimed that they were the primary aircraft taking the load of Casevacs and troop resupply in there AO's. The extended range with the yankee opposed to the UH-1N series makes it completely capable of carrying out missions without the need to constantly refuel, and the increased available power we are able to carry ridiculous amounts of ammo to support the TIC(troops in contact) portion of the mission with increased time on station. The 46 is undoubtedly coming to the end of its service life, an awesome life at that, but never the less coming to an end. The 22 in theatre has shown to not be the greatest choice for resupply and insert/extract missions in confined areas nor under heavy fire so at this point the Huey is the wisest choice the marine corps could and has made, plus its proven itself in combat time and time again.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                      I believe the A model 46 had twin T-58's rated at about 1250SHP ea
                      Correct, Jardo! The "D" went to 1450 but it was a heavier bird than the UH-1N. We could usually lift no more than 3000# with our Alphas. Even my bird, which was a very good Alpha, couldn't lift 4,000# on a hot day in country....That was easy for Ds and Fs....The Es are even stronger and have much more fuel capacity than we had. Do yo know what the Yankee model UH-1 can regularly lift and transport?
                      Semper Fidelis
                      Joe


                      Phu Bai tower:
                      YW-11 for Phu Bai DASC-
                      Remember, These are "A" models!
                      YW-11 BuNo-151939
                      '65 Model CH-46A

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                        our max gross is 18,500, basic weight is 11,500, so with crew, fuel, DAS mounts with deuce-LAU61's and the .50 cal & GAU-17 w/ full ammo, it gives us about 2k lbs to play around with, and even with max weight its not fictitious to say we could easily pull a max power takeoff out of a CAL with no problem... but in the mountains of Afghanistan that may be a different story with the extenuate altitudes.. but i have complete faith in my platform that it kicks ass and truly believe its one of the MAGTF's greatest assets in this modern day battlefield, at least in the theatre our combat elements are concentrated in i.e Afghanistan.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                          arin-dog, Joe, this one is sand, distance, and mountains. Whats the next one going to be after Afghan? Chances are it'll be another 'Nam terrain, or similar, like somewhere in africa? It may be the big bad one won't be good for anything except long fast hauls, or not even work the mission at all. Where will the Corps be then? Up the creek with no 46's thats where its going to be. But its old, tired, not needed, and needs to be gotten rid of. That will be bad. If they are all in storage, or worse as I read it, was going to be sold to other countries, think they will give them back. Not hardly. But we have the hueys. *Ta-Da!!!.* They will save the day. Don't believe they will. I believe whats left of the 46's are E's and F's, and there are no more a's that are limited to 1-1/2 ton haul. But what do I know? I know its a mistake at least. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            arin-dog

                            Hey Dog are those four bladed hueys quiter than the old two bladed jobs and whats the ride like ? I've seen video of the new electric .50 cal man that thing slings the rounds out ! I stand corrected on an earlier post when I said no single barrel fifty could do that ! I still "DREAM " the CORPS could get the CH-46 X with four blade heads (LOL TYPED BALD HEADS THE 1ST TIME ) and the super power eng ,250 max air speed ,extended range, etc. I'm writting a letter to some "politicos I know" .DO they have a four bladed cobra ?
                            non illigitimus carborundumMAF gripe ... deadbugs on windshield...action taken...R&R with live bugs!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Question for the "22' supporters

                              Sure do, Lurch.

                              That's the AH1Z ..... had one at Reno, last.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by Mike Amtower; 12-30-2010, 07:30. Reason: .... addition of AH1Z arrival pic in Reno '10

                              Comment

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