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V-22 in Theatre

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  • #16
    BELTs

    Originally posted by Joe Reed View Post
    That would be a negative....For a Crew Chief to be encumbered with a belt with all we did in a CH-46 it would have been quite an ordeal!! We did use them on the odd times we had a tail gunner!
    [FONT="Georgia"]Belts? Now what are they !!! I don't believe I even worn them to keep my trousers up. In the 46 Joe you're right as a Crew chief most would want to keep on the move. I did however hear some stories about those that stay still ,me I didn't even want to sit . Sitting was the way you could get shot in the REAR. Didn't want that ![/FONT]

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    • #17
      I can't remember if I wore a belt, that was a long time ago!
      Semper Fi
      Tim

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      • #18
        Gunners Belt

        I always remember wearing a gunners belt in the '34's. Many a time in my haste to get out of the A/C, I still had my belt on. I've seen the underside of many a '34.
        MGYSGT FD BERMUDEZ
        USMC (RET.)

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        • #19
          Gunner's belt

          Tim is right, we very rarely worn the gunner's belt. The only time that I used it was while I was working on the ramp. I pulled more than one team aboard through the ramp when we couldn't land. Other times, we were running up and down the cabin. I can understand being a crew chief on a CH-34, sitting by the door. One slip and it would be a loooong way down.

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          • #20
            V-22, & Gunners Belts

            Yes Gentlemen, the V-22 is a machine with Great potential. I have reseverations about it though. I believe there should have been designed into it a system that below10-13 thousand feet the windows could be removed, and 50 cals. be swung in place that when in a landing situation the roto-props would be in a 45 degree to a full Helicopter rotor landing set. The guns would be able to be used during landing from an altitude of several hundred feet, and while un-loading troops in Hot zones. When the roto-props were in a verticle posisition for forward flight, the guns would not be able to be fired. My Squadron still has close to 2 years of existance in the 46. I believe in that time period I feel the major problems will be found, and all those 46's in moth Balls will be quickly put back into operation while its decided wether 50 to 80 or so million bucks per Aircraft is worth it on the V-22. The 46 still would be 20-25 times less the price per unit to this day. Since we(USMC), are going back to the quick assault type warfare the 46 is going to be all thats needed. There are problems with the 22 that are not known yet, and I would say several maybe major problems, that we do not know about, are trying still to be corrected. The Belts are in most cases not needed for a 46 Crew Chief, because for a Crew Chief to be a good one, he must be on the move in the 46 at all times. In the ****-pit, back to the engines,(opening the engine access doors to look for any suden leaks), checking the rear transmission for leaks, and what the grinding is, or wether the carbon seal is leaking fluid, re-setting the generators, looking out of the AirCraft for any possible mid-air collisions all around the Bird, and of course when needed, being on the Crew Chiefs Gun. A Crew Chief that just sits in his seat is worthless, and not a Crew Chief. I shudder to think some Birds were lost in Vietnam just because of that simple thing. The Crew Chief did not know what was going on. I have seen several videos of 46's going into the water just before landing on ship. Did they(ECA's) sense a low fuel pressure and shut down to idle RPM? The T-58-8, &-10 has engine condition actuators(ECA's) on each engine, an electronic gass peddle. If the Crew Chief had the engine doors open, and one went to idle RPM, he could grab the lever, and advance it to full power in time to save the Bird, and everyone on board. Full power spitting and sputtering was better than idle RPM, and loosing the Bird and possibly the Crew, and the people on board. It was mid-July'69, and EP-16 was taking off from the Iwo-Jima. I had just started to go below deck, and the Bird lifted off the Deck, hovered for ground effect, and as it went out over the water, lost out of ground effect power, and it nose dived into the Sea. Everone was saved, but the left seat had a bad broken right foot I believe. It was never known what happened, it just lost out of ground effect power on take off. The Crew Chief was Cpl. Jones. A very good Crew Chief. He worked very hard to keep his Bird ready to Fly. Things happen just in seconds for most any Bird to get into a crash condition. If the Crew Chief is tied down, kiss it all good bye in most cases. Most of the 34 Men, and a bunch of 46 Men knew this. You could not be tied down, and have the time to fire at gooks, or run to stop a bad leak, or if the co Pilot was wasted, and the HAC was wounded, you would have to help the Pilot Fly the Bird, or all would be dead in a very short time. I wouldn't want to be flying as Gunner and my Crew Chief was tied down. Think I'd go to mess duty. All have good ones, Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

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            • #21
              When I went to the 261 reunion the CO briefed us on what they did in Afgan with the Osprey. He said they perfomed very good. They mounted a 7.62 machine gun on the ramp. Early in the cruise they ran about 80% up but as time went by it was down to 40 to 50 %. The day of the reunion their was only one that was misson ready and 3 that was flyable. Most of all of it was for parts. Toward the end of the cruise they took some hits in the skin no one was wounded during the tour.
              When I flew CC in a 46 I never wore a belt but I never leaned out the front hatch either I all ways stuck my head our the window where the gun was. Its a wonder that more people didn't fall out of 34's . SF
              Last edited by Walt; 10-14-2010, 11:42.

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              • #22
                V-22 in Theater

                Walt, I'm glad you posted about this. It just shows what I was saying about it when I posted on it earlier. They built the thing knowing there would be parts wearing out left and right. There was sand in 'Nam as well, but the 46 and others still flew didn't they? They are some bad design flaws that we are not being told about, I do believe. At 1st they had good percentages of up Birds, but as a short time went by, they started being grounded for lack of parts. It is at least a 50-60 plus million per Bird we are looking at. If they would take half the modifications off the 46, and keep them going, at least the troops could be inserted in the Combat zone, and not have to walk a long way the Fighting. To many IED's for that, plus the snipers. They plan to sell the 46's to other countrys when they all are replaced. Better believe that.!!!! Once they are gone, never to be back again. I doubt Boeing would build anymore 46's anyway. Not for 25 million a piece even. They run about 2 million still apiece, as they did when they were 1st made. In a lot of cases, older, IS better. I say they will start having major failures, like the 46 did after a bit. They blame it on the sand wearing the parts out, but it takes 2-3 times longer to work on the 22, than the 46 any day. To replace one little part, half the thing has to be dismantled. Thats why a number of Crew Chiefs were given very BIG bonuses to go over to the 22. I believe the 46 now has enlarged fuel tanks, for 5000 pounds of fuel, where in 'Nam we had only 2500 pounds. They still have a crew of 4, and can only haul 9-10 packs now because of it. In my souped up Alfa's, I've haulled 20 & 21 Packs before. That is a FACT. The little 7.62 gun on the ramp of the 22 does a whole bunch of good , doesn't it? They shoot at you from the front coming in for a drop off, then from the sides. But the little gun, is on the BACK ramp. It took a High Dollar engeneer to come up with that. Bet he never was in the Military, or Flew on a Combat mission. He was most likely a hippie protesting us in 'Nam for being there, now he is designing a machine that he knows is sub standard, for us to go die in. They haven't started falling out of the air yet, but they will, Every 50 to 70 million dollar one they have made. It angers me for them to get rid of one of the few Most succesful Birds in Marine Air History. Oh, they just to old. I would believe each engineer that designed the 22 is a multi- millionaire. The records should be checked some way. We will never know though. Have good ones all. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

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                • #23
                  V-22

                  On my last post here I failed to ask who woud like to be on the re-tests of flying on one engine, or without either left or right nacel? I feel the engineers should be in the 1st troop seats. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

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                  • #24
                    That thing won't fly with one nacelle any more than the 46 would fly missing the fore or aft rotor or losing one blade or part of one blade. Single engine operation is a different thing, I don't know the spec on OEO ops on the VM-22. I know it won't auto-rotate which isn't a good thing, run on landings I don't think would work either. The prop rotors would strike the ground and tear the machine apart unless there is a break away part of the prop rotor which I doubt. There are a lot of unknowns about that machine, time will tell!
                    Semper Fi
                    Tim

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                    • #25
                      one nacel, with engine not running

                      Tim, I'll re- phrase it, I'd like to see the test with both nacels, and one of the engines shut down completely. Its susposed to fly with the cross shaft system from one engine to the other, but I certainly DOUBT it will. May not even get off the ground. That is with one in the Squadrons in afghan right now, not one made to do it off the line. I say one engine will not do it. Think they know beter than to believe it would. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

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                      • #26
                        old 46 crew chief & V-22 tech rep

                        I 'd sure like to find out what ever happened to Ssgt or maybe Gysgt Jerry Greer.he was at atsugi went on the evac in 75 then ran 163s flight line in 77-78 @ LTA( MCAS (H) Tustin,Ca. went to work for Boeing Vertol as V-22 rep.
                        non illigitimus carborundumMAF gripe ... deadbugs on windshield...action taken...R&R with live bugs!

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                        • #27
                          Old 46 Crew Chief-V-22 rep.

                          Lurch there should be a way to find him by checking with boeing. A mesage could be left him, and he get back to you. They may say,'we are not a message board,' something like that. Hope not. Just ask for a tech rep on the 22, and see if he knows him. Hope someone knows him, and will share his address with you. See if he will call you back. Semper Fi, and READY-APP.

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                          • #28
                            missing friend

                            Morning Ace , I tried that a couple of years ago after I saw him on the history channel and the military channel shows about the V-22 .No joy ! I even left messages on his E mail .I know he was in Iraq and Afganistan doing the tech rep thing !
                            non illigitimus carborundumMAF gripe ... deadbugs on windshield...action taken...R&R with live bugs!

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                            • #29
                              Missing Friend

                              Hate that Lurch. Just have to hope someone reads where you are looking for him, and hope that he will get the message, and call you, or leave a message for you. I had a Marine Brother looking for me for 40 years, and heard my chatter there. He said he was going to give up, but didn't. Glad he didn't for sure. Hope the best for you in finding him. Call, or write the tv channel, they will get a message to him. Tell them, we will boycott the channel if they don't. Semper Fi, and READY-APP..

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                              • #30
                                Jerry Grier

                                Jerry is on Facebook. His e-mail address is grier.jerry@yahoo.com
                                MGYSGT FD BERMUDEZ
                                USMC (RET.)

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