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AK-47 fire is ineffective???

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  • AK-47 fire is ineffective???

    [SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua]The forum for Iraq was looking alittle stingy on posts so I thought I'd take up some space.

    This might come as quite a shock to you old salts but did you know that AK-47 and similiar small arms fire is ineffective. I know it sounds crazy but thats what our CO told us so its gotta be true. We learned this interesting bit of information in the ready room of the USS Boxer before launching from the Gulf into Iraq as Operation Iraqi Freedom winded down and OIF II began. We also learned during this brief that we would not be able to conduct test fires with our .50 Cals because there was no designated test fire area between Kuwait and Al Asad, just miles of empty desert. So we would just have to give our weapons a good cleaning, set the head space and timing, and assume they would work if we needed them. My tour in Iraq was a pretty good one aside from the unbelievable BS that came down from the higher ups periodically, and I'm almost 100% positive the "Old Man" was just following the BS of his higher ups. We got the job done and everyone made it home from our squadron. Most of our flights were pretty mundane. Hauling cargo isn't glamerous but its a hell of a lot more rewarding than working in admin or a warehouse. We all knew that the MRE's we were carrying would be eaten by hungry grunts and all the ammo would hopefully find a good target. The Casevacs were the best, body bags the worst. Had some close calls, got a few sea stories, I even got a little souvenier of how ineffective small arms fire is. [/FONT] [/SIZE]


    [SIZE=3][FONT=Book Antiqua]Semper Fi [/FONT] [/SIZE]

  • #2
    AK-47 fire is ineffective?

    Wow, Skypig!
    I guess all us old guys weren't shot down then, since ineffectice fire certainly couldn't bring down a bird as reliable as a UH-34D or a CH-46. We must've had some high number of pilot error issues or mechanical problems, if that's the case! Gotta keep those memories of the metal eating southeast asian mosquitoes alive!
    Sometimes the idiocy knows no boundry! "Of course" those .50's will work! When you need them, fire away! What do you mean he got the head space gap wrong??? LOL!
    I feel your pain!
    Have a good memorial day everyone!

    Semper Fi
    Joe
    Semper Fidelis
    Joe


    Phu Bai tower:
    YW-11 for Phu Bai DASC-
    Remember, These are "A" models!
    YW-11 BuNo-151939
    '65 Model CH-46A

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    • #3
      AK-47 fire is ineffective?

      Ditto on that WOW!!!

      I'll bet there are 300,000 or so Americans that will argue the effectiveness of the AK. Most Aircrews that were shot of the sky were probably under the impression that they were the victim of some eagle eye'd gomer perched in a tree with his trusty Bow & Arrow. He probably just had to lead us a little more.

      Take some time this Memorial Day weekend to remember our fall brothers.

      Semper Fi

      Tom

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      • #4
        Test Fire Area

        We had the same song and dance during Desert Storm I, in 1991. I was a Huey Crewchief with HML-767. There was supposed to be an area to test fire our weapons, but, as the situation progressed, that area was, for the most part, non-existant, sometimes we had one other times we did not. Its a nice feeling when you pull the charging handle back twice only to discover your .50 cal is now a single shot sniper rifle with a 100 round magazine. It was easy taking apart a .50 cal in flight when I was a CH-53D Crewchief, its nothing short of a pain in the butt trying to accomplish the same feat in a Huey. You have to be careful not to lose anything over the side. What fun memories.

        Garfield411
        UH-1N and CH-53D
        Crewchief
        Garfield411
        UH-1N and CH-53D
        Crewchief

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        • #5
          Be Ready, Be Sure

          I as AC in my bird made very sure the guns fire every day. Even if no contact is made. I always wanted to know they worked and my doors had a handle on the systems.

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          • #6
            Ineffective AK-47 fire

            This thread was from some time ago, but I guarantee the rag-heads of today may not be very effective with their '47's, but the 'gooks in 'Nam, were very good shots with their's. I certainly agree with that. Think they were getting bad scoop. Semper Fi, Ready-App.

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            • #7
              Ineffective AK-47 fire

              I don't know if it was my attitude but I was sometimes puzzled by our altitude back in the day. Dale
              READY - SQUAT THRUST - BEGIN

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              • #8
                Small Arms

                HMM-262 lost 43 aircraft to "ineffective" small arms fire in Vietnam. 28 of those in a 90 day period from January 68 to April 1.

                It may be time to update the offical USMC definition of "ineffective". Thank God they weren't slinging "effective" small arms fire at us!

                Semper Fi
                Kreig "Hip" Loftin
                HMM-262, Combat Helicopter Association

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                • #9
                  Hey Hip

                  Guess someone forgot to check with the Assassin when he was Deputy Commandant/Aviation before they put out their gouge. Fred took a hit from a guy standing below our Phrog in the Que Sons when he shot up through the plexiglass. He knows they can hit what they aim at!!!

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                  • #10
                    You could have fooled me

                    I have a scar, about the size of a fifty cent peice on my lower right leg from ineffective small arms fire. It sure the hell effected me and the other members of the crew at the time.

                    Semper Fi


                    Bruce "Howdy" Mayor HMM-161 '69-'70

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                    • #11
                      hill shooters

                      Hey there Howdy, Maybe it was just those goomers in the hills up north at Quang Tri. I left at the end of May69 as you were getting there and I guess all the practice they had at me paid off.
                      READY - SQUAT THRUST - BEGIN

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                      • #12
                        Ineffective.,my arse

                        WOW !!! I check this site at least once daily & have no clue how I managed to miss this post. That being said..,please permit me these comments:
                        FAR be it from me..,to dispute observations as purveyed by our military leaders as to rated efficiency of certain enemy ground-fire with respect to
                        air born targets of opportunity.
                        However.,it occurs to my "olive-drab" mind.,that those responsible for drawing said conclusions.,must've been flying PAX on a battleship.,or.,(& this is just a thought) in hot pursuit of a rapidly retreating enemy force.,
                        that was employing the "spray & pray" technique.,over their shoulders.
                        Personally.,I found the AK-47 MOST effective...,THANK-YOU-VERY-MUCH!!!
                        S/F,Mike
                        TAKE NO PRISONERS.,SHOW NO MERCY.
                        DEATH SMILES AT EVERYONE...,MARINES SMILE BACK...

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                        • #13
                          FEMA graduates!!!!

                          It sad to see that FEMA graduates are getting established into the higher echelons of the Marine Corps. We are deep crap folks!
                          Just read an article about the big amphibious landing exercise out in California ( to impress the public and politicians about the Marine Corps), but that was after reading what the head man at the defense department said concerning the need for Marine Corps equipment. It seemed to hint that there was no need for a Marine Corps now that there is no more need for amphibious landings!! I'm sensing that there is going to be another attempt to do away with the Marine Corps as the U.S. of A. doesn't need a Marine Corps doing Army type battles. They have the big stuff that the Marine Corps doesn't have. This attitude of ineffective fire amongst the higher staff echelons can't do the Marine Corps any good. There is a great need to just let the Lt's and Captains control the training and fighting and if you'r setting in an airconditioned office thousands of miles, shut the hell up.. When your in the fight and dodging the bullets, then you can put your 2 cents in!!

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                          • #14
                            Ineffective Ha

                            I was shot 3 times in my left calf and leg in 1968 in RVN. I was kindly allowed to finish my enlistment and leave the Corps in 1974. Then Commandant denied reenlistment because I walked with a limp. I left as a SSgt. One year later I was recruited into the Air Force Reserve to train as a C141 Loadmaster and then to Rigger's School. No problem for the Air Force, they needed all of the warm bodies they could get. Spent 2 years in the Reserve, got loadmaster certified, attended jump school and rigger's school..Trained along side Army and Marines. In 1977 I joined the Active duty Army after being told I could not rejoin the Corps. I was trained in Air Defense Artillery; then Infantry School-Whoopee. One year later I was sent to LaJolla Calif. Scripps Institute of Oceanography for computer training. From 1980 till 1988 I served in various overseas assignment's of which many were mostly independant duty. Retired at Fort Sill Oklahoma. Then worked for Secretary of Defense (HA) as a computer system engineer. I am so glad the AK47 was not effective. If I had not been wounded, I would not have received all of the great training I got.
                            Semper Fi

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                            • #15
                              [FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT]Lucky for me but I never did get hit by an AK-47 round. But I did patch up many of the holes that they caused in our choppers. First plane that patched up had 62 holes ( in's and out's) so I'd say that the AK-47 produced some effective damage in that respect.
                              Larry Groah[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][/FONT]

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